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Sorry alot of you might consider this a stupid question, but whats the deal with bolters? honestly, i hate them, i mean maybe its because i play Blood Angels, but i dont find them useful. ok every turn i move (I'm BA's) that makes it 12" range, and its rapidfire, god i hate rapid fire, u cant charge when u shoot. plus Str 4 AP 5 doesnt seem to great, maybe cuz i play marines but whatever. some1 please tell me their opinions, maybe i dont like them cuz im a spoiled marines player, or maybe its just me. some1 plz tell me if you think simularly or what, this question is driving me crazy. thanx in advance LUSIPIUS.
I felt the same way, until I played against some orks. The bolter rapid-fire from 1 tac squad took out a whole mob! Never again will I doubt the cleansing power of rapid-fire goodness!
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I'm with Superfreaky on this one (and I play orks!). There's somethings you just plain don't want to get into combat with (genestealers, for example, or that small horde of orks coming your war armed with choppas with a squad of grots in front of them to prevent you from getting the charge...). If that's the case, it's often better to stand and shoot.
As for the AP value... it ignores most ork armour saves, most guardsmen armour saves, most 'nid armour saves (well, the little critters at least)... maybe you should model your guys with lasguns for a little while and see what ends up happening. *Laughs*
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Well it just sorta comes down to what you're playing against. Clearly the bolter scourges the Xenos pretty well (that's what it was designed for) but against marines I would have to agree it is a little sub-par for it's fluff. Wouldn't it be nice if tactical marines could swap their bolters for BP&CCW like Chaos (those damn cheaters), and yeah the fact you can't charge makes it pretty bad for BA.
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Unfortunatley rapid fire rules suck, if only because they're backwards. Guns like bolters should always have a 24" range, requrdsless of movment, but if you stay still you can shoot twice. Makes sense as you have a stronger hold on your gun, and are unleashing more bullets at oncomming targets. But current rules hurt as you can't assault if you shoot. Really, makes no sense.
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if bolters were any more powerful the game would become unbalanced. it would be to easy...if its a weakness live with it.
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If you compare with other armies, the bolter stacks up nicely as a basic weapon. Consider other races:
Eldar - theirs is the same as a bolter, but at Assault and 12', has limited usage. Combine that with a lower BS.....you get the picture.
Imperial Guard - No way a lasgun can compete, even their beefed up HellGuns aren't a match for the humble bolter.
Tau - Possibly the best standard weapon in the game, but again we're talking a lower BS mostly
Orks - There's debate as to how useful Shooters are. It's AP is slightly worse than a bolters, but given a BS of 2, let's not bother.
Necrons - As good as a bolter but can take out tanks.
Still, all these are Rapid Fire, and I think that's the main problem here. I personally quite like the bolter, and the ability to shoot twice at 12' is fabbo. Not being able to assult and shoot is a problem, but not something that would make me dirty on the gun.
I had the opinions as you, Luspius, for some time, but as time passed I began liking the bolter (and I play Black Templars so I don't get to use them much). Sure, it is not as good as the plasma gun or missile luancher but it is not supposed to be. It's meant for you to point at a target and make him roll as many armor saves as possible so he would fail some and lose troops.
Also, don't forget that Orks\Guardsmen\Critters have bad armor anyhow, so the bolter's AP isn't so important.
thinking of the fact that marines are supposed to be super-humans it would make sense that they can shoot and assault in the same turn. and it wouldnÂ´t be unbalanced because most of the other basic weapons are assault weapons.
but rapid-fire is still very usefull against horde armies. I play tyranids myself and hate it to be in rapid fire range just because you didnÂ´t made your assault. those things hurt every xenos fighter.
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Yup.Originally Posted by Lusipius
BS4 Bolters are nasty when used correctly (ie en mass and with HW/SWs), just ask any SoB player.
I am sure if you tried using ultramarines instead of BA you'd see why. or you could just play against Nids and Orks for a few games.Yes, lets make more "special" rules for SM that allow them to ignore the main rule-set. SM already have ATSKNF which makes them immune to being swept and now you want them to be able to fire rapidfire weapons and assault?Originally Posted by dead_raider
lets give marines base 2 attacks and powerweapons while we are it...
and no, most of the other basic weapons are not assault weapons.. they're "rapid fire" weapons.