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My friend plays both Necrons and Ultramarines. He also has access to a Dark Eldar army, but that is less important.
I've never played against him, so I don't have any idea what he has. Since both his armies are MEQs, I think a balanced (between Necrons and Ultramarines, not just "balanced") list and tactics would be somewhat easy to come up with.
My question is - what are good army selections and tactics against these armies? I haven't ever played against Necrons, so I really need advice against them.
1 command squad, standard, HSO, no vox
3 lascannon teams
3 missile teams
2 autocannon teams (counted in squads below)
2 heavy bolter teams (also counted below)
1 tooled out command squad (yeah it's inefficient, but right now it's the only counter charge unit I have, and it's a bit fluffy - plasma pistols, power fist, carapace)
1 bare bones command squad (shotgun JO, 4 pistol/CCW guardsmen)
2 melta/autocannon squads (see above about heavy weapon count)
2 GL/heavy bolter squads (also see above)
1 GL squad
1 meltagun squad
1 Chimera - multi-laser, heavy bolter, storm bolter, smoke
1 Leman Russ - hull lascannon, no sponsoons, heavy stubber, hunter killer, smoke, extra armour
Not built, but can be:
1 heavy bolter
1 officer with bolt pistol/CCW
15 bodies (will be used for heavy weapons, as I am getting more than my money's worth from the heavy weapon box.
Lascannons, Plasma weapons, and Power Weapons.
Believe it or not, against Necrons, this is one of the best times for Imperial Guard to shine. Cheap power weapons, and lots of Plasma and Lascannon, and they're toast.
Infiltrating, decked out Veteran squads with 3x Plasma and 1x Lascannon, with Cameleoline, would definitely do you good against both of these armies, in my opinion. Good cover saves, good BS, crazy firepower.
That's just me, though. I'd steer clear of Heavy Bolters and the likes most of the time, unless you simply need that volume of shots. A Basilisk may do you well, also.
edit: Ask your opponent if you can proxy if you need to, just because you don't have all the models you need. This is only if you're going for a purely anti-MEQ list, of course.
Oh yeah, I forgot:
I have a ten man veteran squad with 3x plasma!
Should I add a lascannon to it, or does that make it too much of a target? I could put the lascannon elsewhere and protect it in a basic line squad.
I could split up my vets and make one 3x plasma and one 3x melta. Is that a good idea? Would that let them die too quickly? I guess I could just use regular guys to beef up the vet squads. Or I could use my 3 meltas in a deep striking special weapon squad - good idea?
Well. The reason I'd keep 3x Plasmas in your Vet squad is simple - BS4 is a tremendous difference than BS3 when it comes to firepower like that, especially when you need that firepower. Of course, what you could do is do 2x Plasma 1x Lascannon, and have two of these squads. Hm.Originally Posted by sgt screwball
They would be a juicy target, but they aren't so expensive that it would cripple you if they died. Just don't rely on them, and they will do you fine. Put faith in other things, such as a Leman Russ - that Battle Cannon will put the hurt on any Necron squads and as long as you keep it mostly out of range of the weapons that can hit it, it's a nice one.
Against the Marines, you'll have to worry about more long-ranged weapons, but the Veterans still seem like a good idea to me.
Personally, if I were tooling an army against them, I'd go with the Doctrines:
Close Order Drill
Iron Discipline is to get your officers going well. HSO with a Master Vox to keep your units voxxed up.
2-3 squads of Veterans with Plasma Guns and Lascannons with Cameleoline, giving them a decent chance against almost anything that will be thrown at them. Decent sized, 8-10 so you can still take casualties.
Some of your Infantry, have in Close Order for more Leadership and whatnot, and let these be your "sit back and shoot" squads - Missile Launchers and Lascannons. I wouldn't bother with special weapons in these squads. You'll need the points elsewhere!
The Drop Troops are for your suicidal squads - a command squad with 4x Meltaguns and a power-sword equipped JO, infantry squads with special weapons (not heavy weapons, as DS will waste your heavy weapons), many relatively cheap squads that can still pack the punch, to give your enemy something to worry about - part of an army behind him that can hurt, and part of an army in front of him that can hurt.
Finally, a Basilisk may do you well, but I'd recommend first and foremost the trusty ol' Leman Russ Battletank. That Battlecannon will do you very well vs. Necrons especially, I believe, and I think an army like this may fair decently against Space Marines.
In the end, it's your call. Play how you want, and any mistakes you make, learn from them and become a better player! ^_^
edit: If I had my codex on me, I'd try and make you a list, but I can't right now. What is your points limit?
The points should be somewhere between 1000 and 1500 (maybe 1850?) There is no scheduled time or point value yet.
Also, I know Necrons have a We'll be Back rule, which, correct me if I'm wrong, basically gives them an invulnerable 4+ save in addition to their 3+ save. I'm not sure exactly how this works, but I do know there are ways to get rid of WBB. What are good tactics for stopping WBB?
Actually, when you kill a Necron, it doesn't have a 4+ inv. The next turn, on a 4+, it gets back up.Originally Posted by sgt screwball
I can't remember exactly, but weapons twice their toughness (i.e. krak missiles, lascannons, melta weapons) and, I believe, CC weapons that negate saves mean that they can't do the WBB. Ask him to look over the rules yourself, before the game.
Or, send me a PM and I might be able to help you. Include your AIM screen name if you have one.
Nemisis is mostly right. Weapons that cause Instant Death or close combat attacks that ignore armour save (ie power weapons, rending attacks) will negate instant death...usually. If your opponent has anything in between his ears at all, his Lord will have a Res Orb, which will allow the WBB roll no matter what. For this reason, I prefer the Leman Russ Demolisher for games against the Necrons.
The S10 Demolisher Cannon is the only weapon we have that can get (1) Instant Death on the Necron Lord (2) Instant Death on the pesky Destroyers and (3) has so much as 1/2 a chance of damaging a Monolith (even a Lascannon needs a 5 to glance, and Meta weapons don't get the second d6 no matter how close you get).
The short range of the Demolisher might scare you off at first, but if you get even one really good shot in with it, you will find that it more than makes up it's own points.
EDIT: Nemesis was entirely right, I just didn't read his post well enough.
When fighting Necrons, a couple of things.
Ordinance is good, but keep it back and out of Rapid fire range, Gauss weapons kill tanks! A Bassie and a Russ are good.
Kill Necrons Destroyers fast, these will kill a lot of what you have if you don't.
Cameoleline can be your best friend when playing Crons.
Ignore the Monolith and Nightbringer generally, work on Phase out, it is your best chance.
Plasma, ML, Lascannons are all good. Your Vet squad is awesome!
Work on killing one troop choice at a time, if they don't have something to replicate themselves with, they can't get back up. A good tactic is to ordinance a squad first, and then concentrate HW fire on that squad until it is all dead.
Your tooled out Command squad might actually help here, Necrons don't like CC! (except for Flayed Ones, Paryahs and Wraiths!)
A good Necron General is hard to beat, you will need to be very smart in deployment and tactics to beat him.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
Tell me more about Phase Out! I know that this can make Necrons just die, but how exactly do I achieve this?
If my point-sink command squad will excel, it would be great.
The Phase Out rule is simple: If you can get them down to less than 25% of their starting units with the Necron Ability (I.e. the ones that get back up. This leaves out things like Tomb Spiders, Monoliths, and Pariahs) they ALL go bye bye. It is the nubmer one way I have of taking out a Monolith. (Since I can never seem to hurt the buggers. ARGH!)Originally Posted by sgt screwball
I've fought for and against Necrons several times and yes, getting the FRM (Fine Red Mist) insta-nuke weapons on them is nice, but so is making them make LOTS of will-be-back rolls. A good Necron player will almost certainly have one reserection orb hiding in his army so those units near the lord will always get will be back roll. Also, if a monolith is on the table his warriors will often get two tries to "come back." Keep that in mind.
To that end besides the ever present battle cannon, I tend to take autocannons a lot. Why? because autocannons are a good "middle ground" weapon. Strength 7 AP 4 still gives the buggers their armor saves (unlike the lascannon) but you get two shots instead of one and they cost less, allowing me to field even more. I also tend not to take Plasmas because I always kill myself. But that's just me and my luck. (I blame years of being a 'nid and never shooting worth beans. )
Destroyers, and the lord should be pretty high on your target priority. Just remember you're going to have to knock these guys down a LOT to keep them down. Just keep plugging away and you will suceed. May the Emperor's light shine upon you!