Codex Revisions (Fast Attack) - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    934
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    144 (x3)

    Codex Revisions (Fast Attack)

    Normally I wouldn't create another "Codex Revisions" thread until the previous one is definitively cold and lifeless, but my gut feeling is that the Troops and Heavy Support one is already headed in that direction. As others have pointed out, both those sections are fairly solid, and we tend to agree on what needs to go back into HS, and we don't have any real innovative ideas for new units. So given that, I figured I'd press forward onto the last big section of revisions for Fast Attack, where I'm hoping we'll get a more lively discussion. The usual rules apply, make all suggestions relevant to Fast Attack, apply common sense, yadda yadda, or else we sick the old edition commissars (when they were still quite badass) on you.

    I'm a bit more tentative on this section than others simply because I haven't seen a ton of suggestions for how to change Fast Attack. However as H0urg1ass pointed out, none of our Fast Attacks are particularly fast, and their efficacy is--in many cases--somewhat questionable.

    Hellhound--This is really the only Fast Attack option I utilize in my normal lists (Sentinels make an appearance in Drop Lists, but that's a specific circumstance), and I feel like they improved immensely from their 3rd Edition version. The only thing we lost was the auto-fallback from Inferno Cannon casualties, but in exchange we got a 24" range for the Cannon, lost the silly glancing hits rule (though the model still has those ridiculous exposed fuel tanks--why I'll never understand), and maybe I'm wrong, but didn't the Hellhound have side armor 10 back then? I could be wrong, maybe early onset senility. That bit aside, I wouldn't change a thing about the Hellhound, I think they're an almost perfect choice for the Imperial Guard. Bet that just tripped you guys up completely, huh? Me mentioning a unit only to say its fine as is, not requiring any change? :tongue:

    Rough Riders--Not really sure what exactly I'd change here. I think they'd benefit from our idea for a revised shotgun (strength 3, can re-roll the dice to wound), as they'd get to make some limited shooting attacks before charging into close combat. I believe others have suggested being allowed to have a mix of models carrying hunting lances and others that aren't, and that seems reasonable to me. Beyond that, dunno. There's several doctrines out there that improve Rough Riders, but I'm not big on the idea of spending 3 doctrine points just to get tooled up humans on horses...though I have to admit its kinda tempting to convert a Krieg Riders squadron. Perhaps in the future.

    Sentinel SquadronFirst on my list of things would be to update the unit entry to take into account Imperial Armour 3's Elysian Drop Troop list, and their Drop Sentinels. I know that they're able to take multi-meltas (not sure on the point cost for that upgrade though), and I believe I've read that heavy bolters are another choice. Don't know if its one I'd use, but options are good, and having 5-6 choices for sentinel armaments would be great. The problem I've seen in using sentinels is that you can't use many of them effectively unless they're your only Fast Attack choices. Why? Because no one wants to take squadrons of them because sentinels are already extremely fragile, and grouping them together makes them even easier to kill. So if you don't want to bunch up, you've got to burn all your Fast Attack choices and the one allowed in your Command Platoon to get a grand total of....4, extremely vulnerable vehicles. Not so good.

    Guard fluff describes how Sentinel pilots tend to be loners and loose cannons, and that they're actually selected for such qualities bcause they typically have to operate on their own and use their personal initiative--which is typically discouraged in Imperial Guard formation. So an idea: maybe Sentinel squadrons of no more than two vehicles can be purchased as one slot on the Force Organization chart, but can deploy and operate as separate units. Also maybe if they're taken as Fast Attack choices, dunno. It just seems like being able to get a few more without grouping together would encourage their usage. However, I don't want to see 12 of the buggers with lascannons marching around the board with a degree of impunity simply because there's more sentinels than enemy units that can target them. Just a thought, feel free to give your opinion.

    Salamander Scout--I'm a big fan of intregrating standard Imperial vehicles from Imperial Armour into the Guard codex where applicable. And the Guard certainly need a fast vehicle, but I don't think the Salamander would really cut it, if we merely transferred its entry straight from IA. For one it would probably be a rare unit, requiring a doctrine point. Secondly despite the fact that its fast, its fairly lightly armed and armored. If given a choice between one Salamander or one Hellhound for a few points more, I'd definitely go with the Hellhound. However, if the Salamander entry allowed 1-2 tanks to be taken per Fast Attack slot (and ideally operating as individual units), I might be tempted to try the Salamander. In terms of firepower, they're about comparable to Space Marine Land Speeder Tornadoes. They both have a heavy bolter, the autocannon has the same AP as the assault cannon and an extra point of strength, but the AC's get twice as many shots and rending. I still think the Marines get the better deal (because LST's are skimmers and cost less) but that seems fair, and Salamanders fit the Guard character better.

    Light Attack Vehicles/Hummvees/Half-tracks--A unit of my own devising, its purpose is to give the Guard their own analog to the Space Marine Land Speeder. They wouldn't be as heavily armed as the typhoon, wouldn't be skimmers, and would obviously suffer from the Guard's BS of 3. I guess in effect they'd be kinda like taking the legs of sentinels and making them fast, plus playing with armor value a bit. However, they would not benefit from the Scout rule or the above suggestion about dividing squadrons into individual units. Each slot would consist of 1-3 light vehicles that operate as a squadron. Now for the entry:

    Light vehicle, Small, Fast, Open-Topped
    Armor 11/10/9 Cost: 25 pts + weapon
    Options: Each Light Attack Vehicle must be equipped with a weapon from the following list: Autocannon at +25 pts, Heavy Bolter at +15 pts, Heavy Flamer at +10 pts, Heavy Stubber at +10 pts, Hunter-Killer Missile at +10 pts, Meltagun at +10 pts, or Multilaser at +25 pts.
    Upgrades: Light Attack Vehicles may take any vehicle upgrades for the point cost listed on page 36 of the Imperial Guard codex.

    If nothing else, these units could make for interesting conversion opportunities for Guard players since we don't have anything that quite fits in the current model range. However the open-ended nature of the vehicle allows for a wide range of acceptable versions and could be a lot of fun.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That's all folks. Fire away at my ideas and/or post your own as usual. Lets get the ball rolling and see what we come up with.


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    131
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    8 (x1)

    I like the idea for the humvee/ light transport/ whatever but i think that giving it a hunter killer missile is a waste, why have a vehicle with a maximum of two shots a game (assuming you only take another HKM from the upgrades list and not a pintle weapon)?

    Also, it mightbe nice two have imperial bikers, sort of like rough riders only bikes instead of calvary and without the option of a hunting lance. I am of course saying this purely out of the desire to use those converted cadian rough riders on the UK GW site without having to go into lengthy explanations and arguments over whether a bike is like a horse or not.
    They shall be my Imperial Guard and they shall know some fear...

  4. #3
    Senior Member warrior poet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Vic,Australia
    Age
    26
    Posts
    827
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    37 (x2)

    I like the salamander scout vehicle and I would love it to be in the normal IG list. I also like the hummer/ light vehicle idea.
    By day he fought with sword and shield.....
    By night he fought with pen and parchment.....
    He was....The Warrior Poet.......

    Fear the ANZAC Clan!!!!!

    ORDER OF THE SHADOWY FLAME!!!

    Do you have uber micro...????

  5. #4
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Victoria B.C
    Posts
    2,578
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    178 (x7)

    Here is a discussion that Kaiser started on an Imperial Hovercraft, that worth looking at and noting. ( I still like the Jeep idea more, but a lot of work went into that thread ))

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ght=hovercraft (Imperial Guard Doctrine: Hovercraft Squadrons)

    Hellhound: Now such a good tank. I wouldn't change a thing. It is my first choice for a tank, for anthing but MEQs, ( problem is, not enough non MEQ armies!)

    Rough Riders: I would like these to look better, but for the points are an effective squadron. Perhaps lads on Dirt Bikes would be better. Anything is better than horses. I would like the option that up to 3 Rough riders could be equipped with Power Weapons.

    Sentinals: Generally I like what we have, but would like more twin linked weaponry. A twin linked Multi-Laser would be really nice, and very Guardy.

    Salamander: Like Sokhar said.

    Jeep Idea: This has been bandied about in the past, but I would REALLY like this to come to pass. It fits our fluff, would give us a FAST option that we don't now have, and fits perfectly into Fast attack. Should be 25 - 30pts + weapon. AV 10 all round, open topped. Weapons: Twin Linked Multilaser, 20pts; twin Linked Lascannon, 40pts; twin linked ML, 30pts. The vehicle could move 24 with no shooting, move 12" and shoot.

    Give them a Special Rule: Advanced Camoflage, which gives them a 6+ "cover save".

    Until the last codex, our Fast Attack was almost forgotten about, but I would like to see more work on it.
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  6. #5
    Treadhead with a Chainaxe Kaiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Varberg, Sweden
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,805
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    238 (x6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer
    Here is a discussion that Kaiser started on an Imperial Hovercraft, that worth looking at and noting. ( I still like the Jeep idea more, but a lot of work went into that thread ))

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ght=hovercraft (Imperial Guard Doctrine: Hovercraft Squadrons)
    I could always try and adapt the rules to create an Imperial Attack Buggy similar to this contraption.

    Removing the amphibious rule and the turning penalty, dropping it's front armour to 10 and some other changes. Obviously, I favour the hovercraft idea myself(Do you have any idea how fun it is driving hovercraft over open surfaces? :p)

    But yes, I'd love to give the IG a fast vehicle, preferably in squadrons.
    #lochat, irc.quakenet.org
    World Eaters, Kaiser Style < Old thread. No ressurecting!
    Late War Schwere Panzerkompanie, Kaiser Style < Don't ressurect this either.

  7. #6
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Victoria B.C
    Posts
    2,578
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    178 (x7)

    That is PEEERfect!. Desert Rats and all that you know! I have that in my mind with the Stats of an Ork Warbuggy.

    I want a horn too!
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  8. #7
    Member Commissar zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Age
    25
    Posts
    63
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    4 (x1)

    I like the hummve Idea more then the hovercraft, the hummvee seems to go with the IGs style. While the hovercraft is more like a SM thing to me.
    Fear me, for I have a Flashlight.

  9. #8
    Member Huitzilopochtl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Age
    26
    Posts
    125
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    5 (x1)

    About Sentinals, first: I believe that if they were given HBolters, they would be much more effective. That way, they would be less of a target on the battlefield, and would free up infantry squads to take more lascannons.

    The Hellhound is perfect as-is, nothing needs to be changed aside from the model.

    Roughriders - see: Hellhound, except they need the option of larger squad sizes: the only fast attack choice we have that is fast should be able to fill in for all the ones we don't, duncha think?

    Now, on the subject of the humvee, I think they should look something like GreyDeath's converted Imperial Jeep Thingamabob, and be able to toake a large assortment of weapons, but give them a large downfall, like low armor (already suggested) or some special rule that hurts them in Night Fight because they have exposed engines, so are thus easier to hear. But, Idunno, it is a strange concept, but one I think the IG need.

  10. #9
    Son of LO H0urg1ass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Age
    38
    Posts
    2,160
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    171 (x6)

    I remember there being a thread a while back about adding a light, fast vehicle to the Fast Attack section of the list and I whole heartedly think this is a good idea.

    While we have the Sentinel, which is an incredible vehicle IMO, it just doesn't have the quickness that is required for some scenarios. For instance, I almost always end up on the wrong end of the deal when participating in a Take and Hold mission or a Rescue mission because my army lacks the speed it needs.

    With a fast and lightly armored buggy, that speed would be available as another resource for those kinds of missions.

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Livermore CA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    232
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    9 (x1)

    Well, it wouldn't take care of the actual FA section, but I think there should be some sort of "over-charged engines" option for the Chimera. Not that the Chimera isn't already an awesome APC, but that would give us the ability to move our forces much more quickly. After all, if the Salamander can be sped up and made "fast," why couldn't the tank that the Sally comes from do the same?

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts