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  1. #1
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    Rate my doctrines

    I'm in the process of making my hi-tech guard army so here's my try at doctrines. So here are the doctrines of the 95th Gray Wolves.
    Carapace armor
    Hardened fighters
    Iron dicipline
    Storm troopers
    undecided
    Please know that I'm aware some doctrines are not cost effective but I included them anyway because I want a very fluffy army but I still want a competetive army so that's why I'm asking for your opinions. And tell me any opinions on what my last doctrine should be.


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  3. #2
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    178 (x7)

    Carapace Armor: BAAAAD, sorry there is just no way to put it softly. Way to expensive to put the save up 1. Next to Cybernetic Enhancements, probably the worst IG doctorine. The only army I would consider this is for an army that deep strikes.

    Hardened Fighters: Not much better. You really don't want your IG to get into CC if at all possible, and the extra little bit of CC ability is not worth it for the points IMHO.

    Iron Discipline: Very good, one of the best IG Doctorines. Lets your guys regroup, and suffer less negative shooting modifiers.

    Storm Troopers: It is one of my personal favorites, even just to have the 5 man squad with two Meltaguns pop a Landraider.

    One thing to consider when picking doctorines is cost. If have a command squad and two full platoons. Carapace would cost 140 pts. Add on Hardened Fighters, and you have 245 pts. That is a couple of Hellhounds you could add to your army.

    My favorite Doctorines for Platoon IG armies:
    Veterans
    Iron Discipline
    Close Order Drill
    Stormtroopers
    Cameoleline
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  4. #3
    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    -170 (x0)

    If you want a competetive army you are going to need to drop both Carapace armour and Hardened fighters. If you want to show your army is from a warrior background than try Sharpshooters instead of HF.

    If you want a few more 4+ saves then try Grenadiers instead of Carapace. Pester Diggums for info as he plays with them.

    Oh and as your 5th doctorine you might want to consider taking Drop Troops, Close Order Drill or Die Hards or Rough Riders.
    Last edited by Triumph Of Man; October 17th, 2005 at 01:35.


    Karmoon
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  5. #4
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Gah!

    Man. Don't let all these people discourage you from Carapace Armour! It's not that bad of a doctrine (and the first person who tries to crunch math in here to prove me wrong is going to get a savage Orkish beating! :argh: ). :tongue:

    Anyways *cough*... Personally, my favourite Doctrines to use are:

    Rough Riders
    Xeno Mounts
    Carapace Armour
    Veterans
    Cameleoline

    But that's just me. I say, if you like the looks of Carapace Armour, definitely go for it! It's a great modelling opportunity and it stops those pesky Bolters from completely murdering your Guardsmen, to only killing 'em 50% of the time.

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    Senior Member ^Heavy Support^'s Avatar
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    I would have to disagree about carapace- it can be useful even without drop troops. This is most true against certain opponents in this order: Tau, Necrons, space marines. Obviously IG are a shooty army, so assume you'll be slugging it out against these armies. Against Tau and Necrons carapace is VERY effective, especially Tau. Tau have very few AP4 weapons, and if you work out the math, a squad with carapace armor, a heavy bolter, and a grenade launcher can beat a firewarrior squad shooting or in close combat. Necrons have a few ap4 weapons, mainly immortals and destroyers, but if your opponent fields loads of warriors, you just cut your losses literally in half. It works well against marines too, but ONLY if they aren't heavy bolter happy. AP4 weapons hurt bad when each guardsmen costs at least 8 pts.

    For doctines, these are my favorite five:
    Mechanized
    Grenadiers
    Sharpshooters
    Veterans
    Close Order Drill

  7. #6
    Senior Member Bobby_Wokkerfella's Avatar
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    Carapce armour is great! If only it didn't cost the extraordinate amount of points it does then it would be a really good doctrine. but unfourtunatly, the points you spend on upgrading them is way better spent on more imperial troops, who although they don't get a save from a boltgun, can fire back at the marine oppressors!

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    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    -170 (x0)

    Carapace armour is just too expensive for it's benefits. Don't forget that most of the time you will have your guardsmen hugging cover anyway, and the majority of cover in 40K IS 4+ I believe.

    So why not for half the points, take cameoline instead and flaunt 3+ and in extreme cases 2+ saves, even crappy 5+ cover becomes as good as carapace.

    Admittedly it will not help you in CC, but power weapons will negate that 4+ armour save anyway....

    I used to run a similar army to Nemesis'. It was ok, sorta competetive but got absolutley pawned with the release of the new SMurf codex. Although I highly doubt Nememsis upgrades his guardsmen with both cameoline AND carapace, 30 points worth upgrades per squad thaqt is compulsary is rather over the top. Instead I believe he only uses carapace on his xeno mounts which are apparently no longer tournament legal according to my club... :wacko:


    Karmoon
    ... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..

  9. #8
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    178 (x7)

    Wow, I never thought anyone save drop troops would take Carapace. I guess if you leave your guys out in the open, then its good, but I almost always have my guys in cover, where half priced Cameleoline is much better IMHO.
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

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    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph Of Man
    I used to run a similar army to Nemesis'. It was ok, sorta competetive but got absolutley pawned with the release of the new SMurf codex. Although I highly doubt Nememsis upgrades his guardsmen with both cameoline AND carapace, 30 points worth upgrades per squad thaqt is compulsary is rather over the top. Instead I believe he only uses carapace on his xeno mounts which are apparently no longer tournament legal according to my club... :wacko:
    Well, sometimes, I do put Carapace Armour on my normal troops. I just love the doctrine in all and I love the big, bulkier type of guys.

    But, yes, it's mainly there just for my Xeno Riders ... mm. 3+ saves are quite fun, especially when your opponent doesn't expect them.

    Also, I can't see there ever being enough cover for a 100+ model army to have Cameleoline be that useful... on the tables I usually play on, there is NOT enough cover to hide that many guys.

  11. #10
    Son of LO H0urg1ass's Avatar
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    171 (x6)

    I wouldn't be against Carapace Armor if it didn't cause two things to happen:

    1) You have to take it for everyone. I don't want it for everyone sometimes, so it can be a real pain in the butt to have to pay for all the upgrades.

    2) It costs the same for a five man squad as it does for a ten man squad. That is a bit ridiculous. I think it should cost two points per model in the squad, that way command squads would only be paying two points per model for it instead of four points per model.

    I'm not completely against CA, but I have found that the extra squads can be more useful at times.

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