Please recommend a 600-750 starter army - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    Please recommend a 600-750 starter army

    OK, complete newcomer here I heard some good words about players here, so of course another question from me!

    Basically, I want to get into WH40K and since I think that I will be more of a painter then gamer, and I care more about the fluff and look of the units rather than winning at all times, (not to say that WH are weak), I want to start a pure Sisters army.

    Since I want to start slow, I was thinking about 600-750 points army. I know I need one HQ and two troop selections, so I was thinking Cannoness and two boxes of sisters. But then what else? Upgrades might eat some points, and I love the orbital bombardment option (might not be the best choice with so few targets on the table). I also love Seraphins for their look, but Repetias are also interesting… Should I get some Elites or Heavy support? The walker-machines? Or aim for lower-cost selections from all? Money is a factor too!

    Some searching revealed this comment from Lord Yossanrion and similar thread:
    • Buy the WH codex (Duh)
    • Buy two squads of battle sisters
    • Buy a Canoness
    • Buy an Inquisitor (not lord, only single inquisitor)
    • By an Offico Assinorium operative of some type (My favorite is the Vindicare.)

    This will give you a nice 500 point army (depending on how you upgrade your squads and leaders).
    What would be a good, low-point starter army from your experience? Huge Thanks in advance!!!


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    Wh are not easy to learn, but are very very engaging and fun.
    THe models are very interesting.
    If I had to do it again, here's the order I'd buy:

    1- The 2 sets of mandatory SOBs is obvious. Squads of 10 or 12 are good.

    Generally speaking, it is best not to try to outfit SOBs for cc AT ALL.
    CC weapons are expensive, and SOBs use those expensive weapons very very poorly.
    (low Init, low Str, low WS). So there's no need to buy wargear.
    The standard special weapons that come in the box are adequate.

    If anything, take Book of St lucius (to help keep you from falling back at 25% loss)
    or Purity seals to help you get away from CC (remember that if you lose a cc, have no models in B2B, and win the init roll-off, you get to fall-back without being swept. This is much to your advantage, becuase sisters shoot FAR better than they swing).

    2- As to the Cannoness.
    The Blessed Weapon is the first piece of wargear you'll probably want to get.
    The Cloak of St Aspira is a close second. (hint: she can become 2+ invulnerable with it)
    after that it's a toss-up between
    Jump pack
    Inferno Pistol
    Plasma Pistol
    Mantle of Ophelia
    Meltabombs (really don't have to worry about modeling Meltabombs)

    3- After you bought that stuff, I'd say Seraphim are next.
    Start learning the Art of "Jump Back".
    It is a subtle, yet powerful skill that can be used to great effect (with cooperating units to commence rapid-fire after jumping out) even if your opponent is fully aware of how it works, there is little that he can do about it.

    4- After that, get 2 Rhinos.
    Rhinos will help reduce casualties while your girls advance into rapid-fire range. You must realize that a dead Rhino can still be a good Rhino, when a squad of sisters (with no long range weapons) are trying to close distance with longer-ranged opponents.
    (Hint: it can block enemy LOS, even after being destroyed).

    5- After that, An Immolator and some more sisters.

    6- Then More Seraphim. (never take a squad of 5. 6 or 8 are the optimal sizes)

    7- Second Cannoness.

    8- Then 2 Exorcists.
    (I never use mine unless there is a possiblity of a Necron Monolith in the game)
    Exorcists seem to work better in groups of 2 or more.

    9- Some HB Retributors.
    (I tend to only use Rets vs Tau and Nids)

    10- More Seraphim.

    11- St. Celestine.
    Hmmm. On second thought, maybe get her as soon as you start playing 1500 point games. I'm falling in love with her.

    12- Another Immolator.

    13- Inquisitor.
    (Consider a DH Inq, because he caan take a psycannon, which is useful)

    14- A couple assasins.
    (the only ones I use lately are Death Cult Assasins)

    16- More Seraphim.

    16- More SOBs (who can double for Celestians or Dominions)

    17- Priest.

    18- Arco Flagellants.

    19- Penetent Engine.

    20- Second Penetent Engine if you didn't mind building the first.

    21- Repentia.
    Every army has a unit of "what the hell were they thinking?" This is it for the WH army.

  4. #3
    Bugs'r us! Blood_Lord's Avatar
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    This is what I play in a list that requires 600-750 points:

    2*Canoness+ Evisceratorx1; Blessed weapon x1; Inferno Pistol; Cloack of St. Aspira;Jump Pack.245

    2*9 Battle Sisters, veteran sister x1, 1 Heavy Flamer, 1 Meltagun. 292

    6*Serpahim, veteran x1; 2-Hand Flamer x2, Power weapon on the vet.188


    Which adds up to 725 points. And it seems to work just fine and provides and insane ammount of faith at this ammount of points, 7 to be preceise and with the returning ammounts of faith you can do some horrible things you your opponent.

    The key behind this army (which you shouldn't let your opponent know) is to make sure the jump infantry makes in into CC with the opponent(Especially the seraphims, as they come in the best number for acts of faith, which is 7 since avarage on 2d6 is 7, the number which pops up most is 7 so make a lot of use of your faith points, as tend to restore themselves, they really do what they have to, the 2 sister squads are for the bulk mostly and when they come within 12" of your opponent he wished they didn't. And they have a lot of survivability, I had games in which they had to endure 2 squads of firewarriors rapid firering at them and it took a lot of turns before it was over.

    After this, I'd advice to bout 2 Exorcist for long range firepower, 2 rhino's as transport maybe a couple of cheap 5 woman strong celestian squad with a heavy bolter (preferbly 2 squads as they provide enough fire support for their points and provide 2 faith).

    And what I do at higher points is replace the Blessed weapon canoness with a GK termie squad with Grand Master, buts that0s me cuz I really like the GM and the GK's. And if you keep either of the 2 canoness with jump packs, you always could switch between the 2 two handed weapons to adapt to your opponent, one tip use the eviscerator and the +2 str act of faith against tau suits, they REALLY don't like it.

    And of course get the codex and rule book:p.
    Last edited by Blood_Lord; October 20th, 2005 at 13:52.

  5. #4
    Member illovich's Avatar
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    For sub-1000 point games I would go:

    1) 2 Sister squads and a canoness. I won't rehash the advice above, it seemed pretty good. Heed the CC advice. Sisters won't fare well against most troops in CC. I would mix each squad with a melta and a flamer. Don't take heavy weapons as you can't move and fire in the saem turn, and that's too annoying to tie a whole squad down

    2) A Retributor squad with a few options based on who you're playing, e.g. if you're playing tanky/mechy armies take some multi-meltas, against heavy infantries take heavy bolters. If you have the points mount them in a rhino or immolator (and again if you still have points, consider upgrading the immolator turret to heavy bolters or multi-meltas).

    3) An exorcist. An exorcist can be unreliable, but it can also be very useful. Against a tank or a squad it gets and average of 3 attacks, with 6 (or 1) possible. Versus guard and their loathsome tanks it distracts the heavy fiepower (and takes some of it out) as my troops cross the battlefield. Against less mechanized army it lasts the whole game and is wonderful for taking out elite squads or softening them up as I send troops toward them

    4) Zealots (you will need White Dwarf #292). Zealots are the bomb. For 160 points you can get a squad of 16, four of which have eviscerators (power fists) and 2 attacks. I use zealots to tie up some pesky squad for a while. In one game I actuallly tied up about 1/3 of my opponent's army for the bulk of the game with 160 points of zealots. Zealots rock, and they're more flexible than inducted guard -- At 5 points each, you only have to take 10, which gets you started with a 50 point squad. Zealots are de rigieur in my army. :yes:


    I think you can squeeze those three things into a 750 point army, and it's straightforward enough that you can worry about getting the hang of faith points first. I recommend against the Inquisitor/Assassain because it's a) expensive (minimum 150 points or so) and b) hard to learn if you're not used to the rest of the army.

    But the most important lesson I've learned is that a basic sister sqaud is 110 points with no upgrades (124 for the VSS with 1 faith point), which is 20 dice hitting on 3s per round at 12", with each additional 2 shots costing you only 11 points.

    Don't overlook the power of the real holy trinity: The sister, the bolter, the faith. :ninja:
    Now a surgeon cuts off rotten limbs; and mangy sheep are isolated from the healthy; but a prudent Judge will not consider it safe to bind himself down to one invariable rule in his method of dealing with a prisoner who is endowed with a witch's power of taciturnity, and whose silence he is unable to overcome. For if the sons of darkness were to become accustomed to one general rule they would provide means of evading it as a well-known snare set for their destruction. - Malleus Maleficarum , part III.


  6. #5
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    Thanks to all of you for responding!!!

    That is all very usefull, but to the suggestion of taking GK Terminator units (Grey Knights I assume) - I understand the Codex as saying that you can only take SM figures if you:
    • Do not take any Sisters of Battle - that is not good...
    • Have two compulsory troop choices from the WH list, so really only the Stormtroopers can be taken
    • Have two troop choices from the SM army book - so basic SM units only

    So it means that you are taking two sub-optimal troop squads, plus two SM units, which I do not want to play at all, to get the Termies. This is why I am a bit resistant to starting WH army - the Sisters and Seraphims are AWESOME, but anything else is tricky to be used properly, and you get no heavy support in the form of Predators or Dreads (which also look like plenty of fun)... My only idea was to get something like this:
    • Canoness with the retinue or the Inquisitor with retinue
    • Two squads of Sisters of Battle, at least 10 each
    • Squad of Seraphims, 7-8 to allow for a good punch...
    • Two smallest possible squads of "rented out" IG to fulfill the requirement (I love the Steel Legion figures)
    • which in turn would allow me to take Leman Russ, and paint it in nice SOB color scheme

    The dilema is that this is not a pure army Ahh... I am so in need of help
    Last edited by SmokWawelski; October 27th, 2005 at 00:10.

  7. #6
    Member illovich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokWawelski
    That is all very usefull, but to the suggestion of taking GK Terminator units (Grey Knights I assume) - I understand the Codex as saying that you can only take SM figures if you:
    • Do not take any Sisters of Battle - that is not good...
    • Have two compulsory troop choices from the WH list, so really only the Stormtroopers can be taken
    • Have two troop choices from the SM army book - so basic SM units only
    Actually, I have good news for you. Demon Hunter Space Marines do not count as space marines for purposes of allying with Sisters, so you only need to satisfy army requirements for inducting terminators (you probably have to induct two troops, but I don't have the demon hunters codex -- but I have read it and it is in there).

    My understanding is that fluffwise, DH & WH (and Xeno Hunters whenever they get released) are all under the long arm of the Ecclesiarchy, and thus it's cool for them to act together.
    Now a surgeon cuts off rotten limbs; and mangy sheep are isolated from the healthy; but a prudent Judge will not consider it safe to bind himself down to one invariable rule in his method of dealing with a prisoner who is endowed with a witch's power of taciturnity, and whose silence he is unable to overcome. For if the sons of darkness were to become accustomed to one general rule they would provide means of evading it as a well-known snare set for their destruction. - Malleus Maleficarum , part III.


  8. #7
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    Hmmm... I would love to hear a definitive word on that. Maybe I will stop by at the local GW to ask :w00t: As far as I understood it, only SM and IG can be taken, and there was no mentioning of DH units.... But then again - I am the Padawan, not the master :rolleyes:

  9. #8
    Member illovich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokWawelski
    Hmmm... I would love to hear a definitive word on that. Maybe I will stop by at the local GW to ask :w00t: As far as I understood it, only SM and IG can be taken, and there was no mentioning of DH units.... But then again - I am the Padawan, not the master :rolleyes:
    The DH codex wasn't out when the WH codex was released, but it's made clear in the DH codex. The line about them not counting as Space Marines is on he page that spells out inducting DH troops.
    Now a surgeon cuts off rotten limbs; and mangy sheep are isolated from the healthy; but a prudent Judge will not consider it safe to bind himself down to one invariable rule in his method of dealing with a prisoner who is endowed with a witch's power of taciturnity, and whose silence he is unable to overcome. For if the sons of darkness were to become accustomed to one general rule they would provide means of evading it as a well-known snare set for their destruction. - Malleus Maleficarum , part III.


  10. #9
    Member illovich's Avatar
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    As a follow up to my thing about zealots, the great thing about them is that they are a "counts as" troop type-- they are listed as having cobbled together whatever weapons they have at hand, and that this ends up counting as a las pistol and ccw.

    The reason this is nice is that you can make a crazy potlatch squad without worrying about having to convert your models. For example, the WD article recommends using flagellants (and they didn't convert them) from the Warhammer Bretonian line.

    I use a combo of necromunda house eschers and old school SoB Frateris Militia for my zealots. It's looks crazy, and they usually get a few compliments every time I have them on the table. I think it's how varied the models are. Doing that really makes it look like a crazed mob.
    Now a surgeon cuts off rotten limbs; and mangy sheep are isolated from the healthy; but a prudent Judge will not consider it safe to bind himself down to one invariable rule in his method of dealing with a prisoner who is endowed with a witch's power of taciturnity, and whose silence he is unable to overcome. For if the sons of darkness were to become accustomed to one general rule they would provide means of evading it as a well-known snare set for their destruction. - Malleus Maleficarum , part III.


  11. #10
    The Orange Grey Knight MiketehFox's Avatar
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    As far as only taking 2 min IG squads, how about Armored Fist Squads? They have the speed to rush towards objectives and the Fire power to hold them while your SoB catch up. Throw in the Leman Russ and you got something nasty IMO.

    Mike

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