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Ok, like the title suggests im calling on all you players out there who are good at calculating dice odds (instead of possibly doing it wrong myself).
Hypothetical situation: I'm shooting my leman russ battle tank at a space marine predator. Now, would it be better to shoot with the lascannon, or shoot with the battle cannon (since ordinance hits get 2d6 and picking the highest for AP)? Assuming I hit with it of course.
I might be off on this a bit, but I'd have to go with the battle cannon. First off you don't really have to roll to hit The lascannon will only hit 50% of the time, whereas you've got a 1/3 chance of rolling a hit on the scatter die, and even then unless you scatter between 4 and 6" you'll still hit the vehicle. So the odds of hitting are either very close, or a little in favor of the cannon to begin with. Then with a lascannon you get one chance to roll a 4+ to inflict some damage (4 would glance armor value 13, 5 or 6 penetrates). So 50% chance of doing damage at all, with roughly 32% of penetrating. With the battle cannon you need a 5 to glance or a 6 to penetrate, meaning you've got a 30% chance to do some damage and 15% to penetrate. But with two dice and picking the better roll you essentially double your odds to 60% of doing any damage by glancing or better, and 30% chance of penetrating. Add on the fact that the ordance penetrating hit table is more catastrophic than the normal penetrating hit chart, and that 2% for the lascannon is negligible. So unless my math is faulty, the cannon gives you about equal or slightly better chance to hit, roughly 10% better odds of inflicting some damage whatsoever with either a glancing or penetrating hit, about equal chances of a penetrating hit, and if/when it doees penetrate it has better odds of blowing the tank apart and taking something else nearby with it.
Or at least that's what my recollection of the rules and laws of probability tells me. I could be wrong. :tongue: And of course those calculations are dependant upon the Marine predator's armor value of 13. If you shot at a Land Raider conversely, you'd be better off firing the lascannon since there's always the possibility of penetrating, whereas a battle cannon could only glance the Raider.
"I would listen to Sokhar. The man's a genius. Listen."~Lord Yossanrion"Thanks, Sokhar. There was some legitimately good advice in between the low-grade profanity, blaspheming and veiled insults."~Quick"Well thought, intelligently put, with a hint of sarcastic bastard!"~Diggum's Hammer
The lascannon definetly, Here's why. the battle cannon is Ordanance. with the new rules, that means that if it scatters at all it can't even hurt the predator (because it hits w/ 1/2 strength) Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think thats correct
If you are shooting at a Rhino or similar size vehicle, if you scatter more than 1", you are off the vehicle, so in reality you only have a little better than 1/3 chance of hitting the smaller tanks. For larger vehicle like Landraiders, it is a little better, but I would still choose the Lascannon for its strength.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
Place it right on the top and you can have it scatter by more than that.
However if you are moving then the Lascannon is likely to do a better job as it suffers no penalties.
Every time you read this sig: a fairie dies!
Of course, if there are alot of things near the vehicle and thus a higher chance of the scatter hitting something you should go with the battlecannon every time.
Besides, all my russes are tripple heavy bolters, except for my leman russ demolisher... and in that case id only use the lascannon if the demolisher cannon wasn't in range.
Well technically if the hole on the template isn't on the vehicle then its at half strength I believe. But if it scatters and the hole is still on the vehicle then its at full strength. I suppose its all down to chance with the battle cannon if i don't roll a hit...Originally Posted by kellster1
We still seem to be at odds here as to which is better... Any other insights? Anyone dispute Sokhar's math? (which seems sound to me).
another thing to keep in mind is that if it does scatter off the vehicle then it o****s as hitting the side of armor that the hole is in, so you could still harm it if you get a rear hit at the Av10, you'd have to roll a 6, but it's possible.
If it is directly fire ordanance then it comes from angle of the gun even if it scatters.
If it is off indirectly ordanance(baslisk) then it is the angle from hole when it scatters.
Plus if your leman russ does not move you roll only 1 dice for scatter so you have better chance to not scatter that far.
just found out that I hate hammerheads even more then I thought I did... Played a game a few hours ago and the ordnance missed because of it's strange shape, and then when I managed to actually glanse it I only destroyed the railgun and after that he just hid it getting the full points for it since it was still mobile. Did I mention I hate hammerheads?