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Ok I have sooooo many questions to ask so here I go...
First of all I want to explain what i want to do with my army - I want to have as much armor as I can without doing an armored company list. I was thinking of having 3 leman russ (I'm thinking 1 battle with H.bolters and Las for long range support and 2 Demolishers with plasma cannons for assaulting with my troops) + 3 hellhounds ( I love these things! I use them all the time in DOW:WA to:tongue: )
For my infantry I was thinking of doing 2 minimum infantry platoons with a priest + commisar in a couple of them. I will probally want to reconsider this later and add more troops, but i don't know yet. I'll probally throw in some Armoured fist Squads With a priest+commisar in them also. Thoughts?
For elites I think I'm taking the Doctine that takes away 0-1 limit for Vets so i could infiltrate a couple squads with a heavy weapon crew and 3 meltas to take out some stuff that I dont want to deal with right away. Which brings me to another question. If your vet leader takes a macharian cross can he move the vet squad into the 18 inches between the infiltrators and the enemy?
Another question for you more expeirenced players: What do you put on you junior command squads that you need for Infantry platoons
For my doctrines I think im going with these so far : Priests
Heavy Weapon platoons
suggestions for the last two? I was thinking maybe tech priests?
If you can find errs in my strategy or have a tip - do tell!
Ok I think this all of the questions (for now:tongue: )
Sorry about the unorganized fashion of the post but I was just writing what I was thinking.
Thanks so much!
Hey, skip the second Infantry platoon. If you want as much armor as possible, give your Command a Chimera, the command squad for the Inf. Platoon a Chimera, and field another Armored Fist squad. You can have 3 chimeras, 3 Hellhounds and 3 LRBT's and take whichever Doctrines you want.
"HQ, my LOS is blocked by a soda bottle. I'm moving to unmask my guns."
"Negative! The soda bottle is the Carnifex!"
"Dang proxy models!"
-Cmdr. Kren, www.tsoalr.com
As far as your core concept goes, Armor-intensive lists can be pretty cool. Just keep in mind that most opponents anticipate Guard armies having a fair amount of armored nastiness, so it won't take them completely by surprise. For your vehicles, I'd actually go with two standard Lemans and a single Demolisher, as their lack of range and firepower on the move really bites. Definitely use the hull heavy bolter over the lascannon, its not worth the points and its not effective.
For your infantry models, do yourself a favor and pretend that the Priests entry doesn't even exist (one of the most painfully useless units in our list), and Commissars aren't good for anything except a slight leadership bonus and for walking Conscript Platoons around the board. Since your armor will do a great job of taking out enemy infantry, all your line squads should have plasma guns and either missile launchers or lascannons for taking out MEQs and enemy armor.
Veterans is a great doctrine, but go with a 3 plasma gun/lascannon combination and you'll pound on your opponents. Meltaguns are for deep striking units or units with a transport only. They're not worth a damn in normal line squads. Don't bother with the Macharian Cross. Useless piece of wargear that's only meant to make up for piss-poor deployment (that you can just learn to get better at, and save points).
For infantry command sections, give the squad either a mortar (and keep it outta sight) or a heavy bolter (to attract less attention from your opponent). They're just there to provide leadership support, not significant firepower.
Some closing thoughts: Forget Techpriests. They ARE the most useless unit available to us. They're an abomination, a waste of space in the codex, and an affront to an actually nice-looking model. And you don't need Heavy Weapons Platoons because all your Heavy Support slots will be occupied by tanks.
"I would listen to Sokhar. The man's a genius. Listen."~Lord Yossanrion"Thanks, Sokhar. There was some legitimately good advice in between the low-grade profanity, blaspheming and veiled insults."~Quick"Well thought, intelligently put, with a hint of sarcastic bastard!"~Diggum's Hammer
Take the Doctrine "Mechanized" then even your platoones will have transports. also I believe both Techies to be useful just be sure to keep 'em safe and keep 'em close
Qui est Mortis? Lol, the rep... neggatized for something... lol that nobody payed attention too... Lol Goodbye all, BTW This is permanent goodbye so save some bandwidth mods delete this account :D :evil: :D :evil: :D
let's work our way down that list
for the leman russ's you should probably just keep heavy bolters all around for hull and sides; you'll be doing your damage with the ordinance, the heavy bolters are so you can keep pumping out 9 shots even with a weapons destroyed, and are very cheap.
for the hellhounds, go for it
as for the infantry; if you want to put priests and commissars in them, you can't; well not without doing a little legwork first. for the commissars, you have to take the independent commissar doctrine to be allowed to put them straight into your infantry; otherwise, you have to put them in all your command squads first (the advisors rule)... which you're going to have to do with all your priests as well before you put them into your infantry (they don't have any special doctrines).
second, really recommend against going into combat with your guardsmen, even with the re-roll on charge; they'll most likely get cut down before they have a chance to swing, and with low stats (compared to assault-oriented units of other armies) they won't do much damage even when they do strike. so the priests are somewhat pointless in ig armies, as for commissars, they're put to much better use in 50-man conscript squads placed in cover to hold flanks; it takes a lot to remove them.
the armored fist squads, if used, should be to take objectives and set up fire points following the wake of your tank assault. as with the infantry, i wouldn't suggest throwing them into melee.
as for hardened vets, i recommend taking the drop troops doctrine with these guys as well (so you can deep strike them and assault tank rear armor). as for the macharian cross question, i'd only see that working in this scenario. you deploy your command 24" from the enemy (that'll usually be at the forefront of your deployment zone in most cases), you then deploy your hardened vets between the enemy and your command 18" from the enemy, 6" from your command, then using macharian cross ability, you push them to the 12" from your command which would put them inside the 18" from your enemy... but then again, they're front of your enemies at close range, bad place to be.
for my command squads, an autocannon usually; or as i have currently 2 plasma guns (in which i don't have one, but it might be a good idea to put in a doc). also, a standard bearer in my command plt squad (but with all that you kinda run out of meatshield).
lastly, for your doctrines-
i'd recommend against priests as you'd have to put them in your command squads before you can put them in your infantry squads (and you don't want command in combat, as the priests might end up having you do)
drop the heavy weapons platoons, it's useless if you're taking three leman russ's as your heavy support, you won't have any open slots for them. besides, your tanks and line squads should be able to provide enough heavy weapon coverage and protection of those weapons.
veterans are fine (i use this doctrine too)
recommend adding drop troops (so you can deep strike your vets if you want to)
independent commissars, if you still plan on putting them in your infantry squads
if not, then maybe iron discipline to help keep your line squads in place (cheap too)
Thanks so much for all the imput!
About the doctrines... From what I'm hearing priests tottaly suck. So what 5 doctrines should I use?
I know this alot to ask, but, if you're bored, would anyone mind writing up me a 2000pt list with my ideal play style in mind? Money is definately a factor so the more points i can get for my dollar the better.
Thank you so much for all the responses they helped alot
you guys are awesome!
The way i'd like to play my guard is as follows:
I like ranged units - i'm not a fan of close comabt
mass armor - 3 lemans 3 hellhounds + chimeras maybe
maybe some meat to tie up troops while i take down the rest?
I like alot of shots as opposed to few powerful one (although i do anjoy plasma guns VERY much)
I like the heavy weapon crews quite a bit (they'd have to be an HQ support choice) - I'm not to sure what i would weapons to use but i am a fan of the H.bolter and the auto cannon
as I said before I like vets and infiltrate/deepstrike
I was leaning away from storm troopers so i can replace them with vets
That's about it....
Last edited by Ub3rPix3l; November 11th, 2005 at 22:31.
well, if i have some bored time i'll see what i can come up with (i'm currently also trying to come up with lists for my friends too to help with a narrative campaign we're setting up)
so how many points total is this army? are you opposed to conscripts (they shell out lots of shots, albiet a little inaccurate; and with independent commissars, they'll tie up troops and hold flanks for a good bit)? heavy weapon teams would be heavy bolter for fire support squads, autocannon for infantry squads, and i'd go with vets over storm troopers (with their high number of special weapons and a heavy weapon; can always take drop troops to deep strike them, but come with infiltrate for free). i love plasma as well (i have 14 plasma guns in my current army)
If you really want to min max the infantry to tanks ratio there's only 2 real ways.
Take the Grenadiers doctrine (which basically turns Stormtroopers into non deepstrike/infiltrating Troops choices), allowing you to bypass the mandatory 40 infantry models minimum (one 5 man Command HQ, a minimal Infantry Platoon and an Armored Fist Squad) and instead take as little as two 5 man Grenadier squads as your Troops (although i'd recommend about 8 men each).
Then cram in the Leman Russ's and/or Bassilisks, Chimera up the Grenadiers (Stormtroopers as Troops) and take a minimal Command HQ in a Chimera. Sprinkle with Hellhounds, add a Sentinel for flavour and you have about 1500 points of armour intensive Guard right there.
The other way to minimse the FoC requirements is to take the Feral Ogryns Doctrine as they count as Troops too (if you have the White Dwarf with their rules that is). However it's more expensive this way and generally much less effective.
Of course you miss out on the Vets and Priests and Commisars either way but if it's armour you want then heh, fair trade.
Last edited by Eek; November 11th, 2005 at 23:59.