couple of space wolves questions. please help - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member 606lyonian's Avatar
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    couple of space wolves questions. please help

    on the basis that 'if you can't beat them join them' i'm looking at using the SW codex to re-vamp my 'Severed fist' chapter, fluf wise this is to represent low numbers, the result of in fighting, and the recruitment of new initiates from a feral world... i hope thats a good enough excuse....

    and in games terms i wanted to move to a more assault orientated force.

    couple of things i am having trouble with:

    Wolf pelts: in order to get the +1 attack does the model thats counter charging actually need to move? if the enamy assaults and contacts all the models in the unit; or the one with the the wolf pelt do they still get the bonus attack? and any suggestions of what to use to represent these that is'nt fur?

    Cyclones: a wolf guard with a cyclone can take a storm bolter/ combi weapon OR a ccw? one or the other not both? while on the subject of wolf guard; 1 in 3 rounding up can take hvy weapons so if you take four; two hvy weapons?

    Storm caller: models with this cast on them charge and strike first? or if opponents in cover; simultainiously?

    lastly (and not space wolves specific) in 1500 i'm using a ven dread, runpriest and wolf guard terminators (drop pod), wolf scouts, 2x 8 grey hunters, 2x LST, 5 long fangs.

    was thinking of putting one grey hunter sqd in rhino and one in drop pod; but fear that may leave me with too little on the table to start ( with the scouts, terminators and 1 grey hunter sqd in reserve) so do i drop the seconed pod and the rhino and walk my grey hunters or go two rhinos ? one in drop pod one on foot? any other suggestions most welcome but i don't have a model for another drop pod (nor do i think it would be wise to start the game with one unit and three vehicles on table) any advice ?

    playing a tournament in two weeks so need to stay fairly flexable.

    thanks in advance.

    Last edited by 606lyonian; November 15th, 2005 at 12:59.

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  3. #2
    Son of LO Araith's Avatar
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    * Wolf Pelts; for the workings of the counter-charge, look at the True Grit entry in the rulebook. And I believe there's an FAQ about it.
    * Storm Caller; from my head, I believe it doesn't let you hit first on the charge. To your second question, I believe the answer to be positive, you do strike simultaneously. But to be sure, check the SW FAQ, I'm sure the Storm Caller is treated there. Many people have problems with the Storm Caller.

    On your army composition, IMO there are several effective Drop pod 'compositions'.
    You can pod a part of your force, keeping a sizable force to be deployed normally.
    You can pod your whole force. That won't work always, but it can regularly be dreadfully effective. GH are some of the best podders there are, with their options.
    Or you can pod most of your force, leaving only some very mobile troops on the table, like `Speeders and Bikers (with the HQs which didn't fit in the pods).

    In your case I'd either stick both GH packs in a Rhino or pod them both.
    And what are you doing with those 5 stray Wolf Guard? I'd drop them, your army is very small, even for a podding SW army. Instead I'd get a BC pack. If you pod the GH, pod them too, and vice versa.


    Tai'shar
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    Member 606lyonian's Avatar
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    sorry, that should have read '5 long fangs' and now has been edited so it does

    thanks for your speedy reply and i have checked the V4 update for storm caller and am still unclear.... is there another FAQ i can check?

    i have tried blood claws and found the lower WS a drag plus i think grey hunters are more flexable, as they can shoot more effectivly and still tear people apart in close combat.

    The terminators are set up to pod in, shoot and cast storm caller, so with the wolf pelts they are difficult to take out and will be used as my main assault unit.

    basicly using fire base of long fangs, ven dread(las cannon) and 2x LST. termies and wolf scouts coming in from reserve. if i put one or both Grey hunter sqds in drop pods then i think my fire base would be easy to over whelm and if i put them both in rhinos i'm spending near 120pts out of 1500 for transports that won't do a lot. one the other hand if they walk they will most likly not be where i need them; when i need them so i really need to work out witch is the greater disadvantage.

    are the rhinos worth it?

    and do you know what the rules are about the wolfguard with cyclone?

    many thanks.

  5. #4
    Surgeon General Ikterus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 606lyonian
    Storm caller: models with this cast on them charge and strike first? or if opponents in cover; simultainiously?
    Yes that's correct!

    In my opinion this makes a rune priest a must for every SW-army.
    Ikterus

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    IMO, the rhinos are worth it, especially if you want a close combat army. There nothing like being able to get across the board without getting shot to pieces.


    <Soulthief>

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    Son of LO Araith's Avatar
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    You heard it.
    And as you have Long Fangs, I definitely would stick the GH in Rhino's. Or the Long Fangs would be No Fangs in No Time.

    Does the Ven Dread combine his lascannon with a missile launcher? Highly recommended.


    Tai'shar
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    Forged in fire, bonded in ice
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  8. #7
    Wolf Lord JohnPublic's Avatar
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    You are correct in thinking that 4 wolf guard are allowed to have 2 heavy weapons. As far as the cyclone model goes I am under the impression that he is allowed to have a storm bolter + ccw + cyclone.

    As far as your troop options I would suggest adding more. Grey Hunters / Blood Claws are the meat of the wolf force and I would consider three 8 man squads the minimum for a 1500 point SW list. I play four 9 man squads (2 GH / 2 BC) and have seen very respectable lists contain 50 troops or more.

    If you are content in having only the two grey hunter squads I'm with Araith: if you DP both of them your Long fangs are going to be target numero uno. I would either rhino both or even foot slog the GH squads and put the long fangs in a rhino as it is often helpful in getting them to where they need to be / providing mobile cover / hiding their presence. This may be a little unorthodox, but I have found it to work wonders in keeping the Fangs alive and shooting longer.

    I also implore you to consider a pack of blood claws. The lower ws / bs seems at first glance to be a huge disadvantage until you realize that a large portion of the time they are still going to be rolling 4+ to hit in close combat(ws3 vs. to4 = 4+) and with 4 attacks a model (including 8 pf attacks) the payoff will be greater than the hinderance as long as you are careful to let them get the charge or make sure they follow the GHs and charge into their drawn combats.
    Last edited by JohnPublic; November 16th, 2005 at 20:20.

  9. #8
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    I would stay away form blood claws, they are a slow unit which requires a charge.

    Space wolves have the most well rounded and tactical effective troop choice in the game, that being the grey hunters. Charactor lead Greyhunters should have BP and CCWs. None Chractor Lead squads should have bolters. 1 melta gun for each squad. Consider also picking up a plsama pistol, this makes you pretty good a shooting. Finally 2 powerfists is a must, except your rune priest squad, 1 power weapon, 1 fist. Since youll strike at I10, against everything but eldar, and perhaps still eldar, not sure whos power wins (plsama grenades.)
    This build for HQ is the best Space marine HQ, build in my opinion short of converting to chaos: Rune preist, Strom shield, Frost Axe, chooser of the slain, wolf pelt, wolf tooth necklace, strom caller(been awhile, but if you have the optoin take terminator honors as well. He needs only grey hunters as a body gaurd, to beat just about any space marine squad, and sertainly wreak any none chaos army with it. This squad is also able to use rihnos more effectivly then most others, since the storm caller will give you the obseured vehicel advantage for every turn you make your test. Unfortanily this squad cannont drop pod. But, Space wolves are idealy suited for drop pods. In combination with their scouts, you can over power, and destory many armies extreamily quickly. I would recommend 1 squad of drop podders, who will aid the scouts, as they rampage the enemy, this will take fire off, 2 rihnos which will deliever your killer GH squads, with HQs. Your other HQ should be a wolf lord, frost axe, belt of russ, terminator honnors, bolt pistol. In this way, both your HQs have 4+ inverables, both have 6 attacks on the charge, and both have 5S, few armies can boast that.

    Leave the long fangs behind for sure

    I dont have my wolves dex with me, IF you can give the dreadnought TLLC/ML venerable, And hopefully tank hunters, but not required, take him, other wise leave him out, as a little more anti tank would be nice, BUT not a nessesity, more like icying on the cake. Finish off the rest of your points with Skimmers AC HB. As many as possible would be nice. Leave the wolfgaurd at home, waste of points, with such a powerhouse troop choice.

  10. #9
    Member 606lyonian's Avatar
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    thank you all for the response's.

    my current thinking for a 1500pt list is: Rune priest, ven dread (las cannon), wolf scouts, wolf guard teminators(2x assault cannon) deployed with the rune priest via drop pod, 1 sqd of foot sloging GH, 1 sqd of GH in a rhino, 5 long fangs, 2x hb/ac LST.

    wolf guard and rune priest all in t. armer, all with power weapons and wolf pelts, poding in and opening up with 2 assault cannons, a couple of storm bolters and the death wind launcher; rune priest casting storm caller to make them even harder to shift in an assault sounds good to me but if any of you want to talk me out of it nows the time......

    as for Grey hunters two sqds of eight, one on foot one in a rhino, seems to be all i can squeeze in to my list because i can't see what else to remove: scouts; for dealing with enamy fire base, long fangs as i know that in this tournament i'll be facing multiple AV 14 (including monoliths) so couple of lascannons and a missle launcher should come in handy, ven dread with las to move up with the foot slogging GH and take on tanks, 2x LST good and fast will be the fire support for the rhino GH sqd.

    i know i'm sinking alot of pionts into the wolf guard but along with the rune priest and deploying from reserve i think they are a unit that will win games for me but i could be wrong......

    as to the cyclone the faq seems to say storm bolter OR single handed weapon but i maybe mis reading this so can anyone else confirm?

    i'm very gratfull that all of you have taken the time to answer and am now alot more comfortable with my understanding of the SW codex. cheers

  11. #10
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    Are you using the new model for cyclone terminators? if so, you'll see that he is holding a powerfist, stormbolter, and cyldone missle luancher systems, he may shoot all his weapons, and attack in CC, just like any normal terminator, But to solve your problem, you will be taking an 2x assault cannons instead (for the love of russ) it is so much better

    Well as i cautioned you before, that termintor squad is not needed in a space wolf list. While they are good, they are over kill, in a sence that they will kill anything near them, except the rest of your army is weak.

    If it where me, id let your terminators march around, and look all bad arse, but they pose no real treat, because i could quickly destory the rest of your forces, and leave you with only 1 scoring unit, where i would probably have 2 or 3 left over.

    If i where this is what i would take

    Rune priest 133
    terminator honnors
    frost axe
    chooser of slain
    strom shield
    wolf tooth necklace
    wolf pelt

    Dreadnought 193
    TLLC/ML
    smoke
    extra armour

    256 GH for priest
    1 PF + BP
    1 PS + BP
    1 melta gun
    6 BP + PW
    Rihno smoke/extra

    260 GH
    2 PF + BP
    1 melta gun
    7 with bolters + CCWs
    Frag
    drop pod

    288 GH
    2 PF + BP
    1 melta gun
    7 with bolters + CCWs
    Frag
    rihno Smoke/extra

    Torando Patern skimmers AC + HB 80
    Torando Patern skimmers AC + HB 80
    Melti-meta 65

    Scouts 146
    1 meltagun
    2 powerswords
    2 BP+CCW
    WG BP+powerfist

    1501

    CHECK MY MATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    CHECK MY MATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    CHECK MY MATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This is a rock solid list, in my opinion.
    Last edited by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar; November 17th, 2005 at 11:20.

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