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OK. I might be stupid but why all this slanderning of the trusty Rhino?
I've on numerous occasions seen this quote in various forms Rhinos are death coffins
What do you base that on? I play marines have used a mechanised infantry force for some time. Sure, I loose some marines now and then when a rhino explodes but in comparison to having the guys walking across the battlefield these losses are small.
I must note that I have never gotten a "vehicle annihilated" result when hit by ordnance. But that possibility can't be the only reason of the accusation?
Has anyone made any calculations on this?
Well it may be alright in comparison to foot slogging across the board, but that isn't what I compare it to. I compare it to drop pods and infiltration, which I would take over a rhino any day. Not to mention it's cheaper in both cash and points
Also it isn't just a vehicle annihilated result which is the problem. If your opponent is clever he can surround your rhino in close combat, destroy with grenades or a powerfist or whatever and blocked exit points = dead marines.
"You challenge me knowing that I am Xiahou Dun!?"
Yes, Plus your pinned for a turn, if the vehicel explodes, and are forced out, if a penatrating hit is scored. Very annoying. Drop pods get you their faster, behind enemy lines if you wish, safely, and can block line of sight annoying, once you get used to playing with them, and some lucky direct hits.
The rihno is a great transport, but space wolves are probably the only army which should still field them.
On that note, infiltrators as said before, can do the jop as well, for the same cost as a drop pod, for a 10 man squad, that way you can always control how assaults will turn out. The one down side, you no longer have that fun tank to tank shock with, and be the most annoying line of sight blocker in the history of the warhammer 40k. Muahah!
OK, I see. True that drop pods are really good in the new rules. I do however play SW and find droppods a little unfluffy. In fact they are also boring. I don't understand why GW has made DP such a big deal in the rules update.
Reasons why Drop Pods are boring
1. The only models available are from Forge World (expensive and hard to get)
2. Drop Pods are fluffwise in need of a ship in orbit to drop from (I see my marines as earth bound and only in space when leaving the planet)
3. They don't fit whit the traditional SM-army (I'm old and a traditionalist)
4. They're to good
The Rhino-rush was to effective so it's good that they changed it, but in my opinion Rhinos are an essential part of a SM-force and I want to see them on battlefields in the future.
Word!Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar
Wow "Death Coffins" I had never heard that before. I think they are perfectly acceptable, just use them wisely like scouts. I myself would never use them against say the Imperial Guard no-one in their right mind would, unless they or there oponent are stupid.
98% of the teen population has smoked weed, if you are the 2% that hasn't, put this in your signature.
I love my rhinos, sure the armour isn't fantastic, and sure drop pods are probably more points effective, but I still love 'em.
A *pt (ok, *pt) rhino can be used to speed a squad forward 12" in turn one, drop them off so they can let rip with rapid fire-y goodness; and then make a nuisance of itself for aslong as it takes for your opponent to destroy it. It can block lines of sight, tank shock or get in the way of enemy movement, all of which are very annoying for your opponent, but the chances are that he is going to be unwilling to fire a whole squad at it, just to take out * (*) pts that doesn't count as a scoring unit...
Obviously against heavy shooting armies or rending heavy nids they probably arent such a good buy, but all things vary according to who you're playing.
The main reason they are reffered to as death coffins (ace) I assume is the fact that if a squad is embarked when the rhino is destroyed then it will be entangled (pinned), which is never a good thing. So get the squad where they need to be as soon as possible, and you will minimize the chances of that happening.
Plus, mechanised armies are cool :yes:
[EDIT BY CHAOSBRYNN: At least try and keep point values out of your posts. Its against the rules aftter all]
Last edited by Chaosbrynn; January 27th, 2006 at 15:43.
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Ya , they might be death coffins for those sm's who die in there rhino but it sure as hell beats flying a cardboard box raider in which they, u may not have the assualting power u can pop out and shoot off some rounds and blow a few heads off and theres were smoke launchers come it. Key points of a rhino low point cost, speed, have some sort of fire power and smoke power
To do the bidding of the god of decay death and corruption is to be rid of all things that makes you weak only in return for the control of your soul!
Rhinos are death coffins for the simple reason that they are far to easy to destroy.
It has been a LONG time since I have seen a rhino last more then 1 turn once it is in LOS. It became completely worthless in 4th ed with the entanglement rules.
You move the rhino 12", pop smokes. Rhino gets destroyed (as always) causing hits on your marines. Maybe one dies. On your next turn, the squad is entangled and unable to move shoot or assault.
With Drop pod:
Pod comes in on approriate reserve roll, lands safely and troops disembark. You should disembark with the pod between you and whatever is most dangerous to your squad. Squad can still shoot the turn they come in. Cheaper then a rhino.
Squad sets up where you wanted to get them with the rhino, except you also have the benefit of placing them in cover. Cheaper then a rhino.
Your squad moves 6". Gets shot at on your oponents phase. You lose a marine or 2. Squad moves 6". It is now turn 3, the same turn your squad in a rhino would be able to do something aftter entanglement. Except you didn have to pay 50 points for a rhino.
Obviously there is a lot that can change in those situations, but im just trying to point out that rhinos are unfortunately pretty crappy. But who knows, you may play against people who have no idea what they are doing or yu may play on battlefields with tons of terrain making rhinos worth it.
All I know is that on a standard board, with standard terrain, rhinos are generally the worst choice you could possible make for getting closer to the enemy. Like I said, its been a LONG time since I have seen one survive past one round of being in LOS.
Oh, and there are templates abound for making your own drop pods. You need not buy the forgeworld ones. And they come out looking great if you put a little time and effort into them.
Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.
Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC
Isn't the chance of the rhino being destroyed after deploying smoke only 1/6, since the penetrating hits count as glancing? None of the other glancing table results deny you the ability to get your squad out of the vehicle in your next movement phase, and would give you their normal move (minus assault). I think that intelligent setup, smoke, and staying in the thing for only 1 of your opponents turns is the key to using the Rhino.
If you look at how modern armies use APCs as an example, they will dismount as the engagement begins and primarily use the APC to manuver them into an advantageous position BEFORE most of the shooting starts. To me its realistic; let it manuver you quickly then get the hell out of it before it vaporizes. It is a common mistake to think that APCs are tanks, which they most certainly are not.