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Greetings! I've recently started attending a wargames club, and have decided to take up Warhammer 40k, with a SoB army. After a breif skim over the various races and whatnot the nuns with guns called to me the most.
Really I could just do with some info on what sorts of things to go for, unit wise and what have you. I'm no fan of the inquisitor side of things, nor imperial guard, but from what I've seen after looking through the forum quite a lot of people like pure sisters armies anyways. Unfortunatly it seems my taste for playing the game with what I want, rather than effectivly might be a big hinderance. For example: I love the repentias, and hate the Exorcist! So essentially my questions are going to be somewhat specific. Whilst not yet an "army list" the general outline of what I am hoping for is something as such:
Heavy bolter ret squad + imo
melta squad of some sort + imo
mandatory 2 troop slots + rhinos with meltaguns and heavy flamers
flamer seraphim squad (+ living saint should points allow)
full unit of repentia + priest
My general plan was place the two heavy units somewhere useful, then send the immolators in to cause damage and shield the advancing repentias. Some really goes for the rhino squads, the melta and heavy flamer both being assault weapons means they can still move around, the melta seems like a fairly gaurnteed killy one target if hit gun, and might help in case of things with armour attacking the squads. Which really leaves the seraphim hoping about trying to lay down those flamer templates and being annoying. They look cool ;p
Taking note that the games played seem to be 1500-2000 points
The specifics of questions go to:
1) Which is more effective:
Dominion squad with meltaguns
Retributor squad with Multi-meltas
From what I understand, the Dom squad would be able to ride into range, and open fire as soon as they remove due the Assault 1, but will be more likely to get in danger. Where as the Ret squad would have to wait after move, but be generally safer at more of a distance. Having not actually PLAYED the game yet, I'm not too sure how the significance of double the range on standard hits, and effective armour penetration would apply.
2) Is the living saint a worthwhile investment?
She seems very costly, and the Miraculous Intervention rule seems very costly to faith, which gives lots of nice bonuses, and I can't imagine she'd be retuning to use too fast. However the fact that she can stay in a seraphim squad and keep their special rules, with fearless, and a blessed weapon + another flamer template DOES seem very tasty. She is costly however, and it forces me to take minimum squad sizes on my troops to afford her.
Like I said I haven't played warhammer myself, so I can't really just stick to what plans I'm saying here, but with what I outlined above what weapon choices would make sense?
If they're providing cover and moving into the enemy units twin linked heavy flamers seems quite a good idea for no extra point cost, but would it be more sensible to do something like meltas for hitting other tanks?
4) Redundancy of special weapons/units, and cost. How much is too much or too little?
a)Heavy Bolters seem like a lot of fun, 12 decent ranged shots from a 6 person group, with faith options, however I imagine they'd be a prime target, and lose models quickly. If I had an imagifier for getting faith effects I'd essentially lose effectiveness the instant I lost a model, and I'd have to lose heavy bolters each death after that to keep the unit faithful. Is a troop killing unit worth it when I have fast moving seraphim with flamers, and the repentia's who must charge at a unit that is in range? I imagine that people will send any large weak units right at the repentias to slow them down and try and get some wounds in when not shooting them.
b)Melta weapons: Every army has nasty things that you just want to get killed, however how much of this is a nessecity once again seeing as I want to take repentias. With a tank and range attacks I imagine they'd get the job done a lot faster turn wise, and people will want to keep their expensive things away from girls armed with tin openers. However considering I can give a cannoness an evicerator and inferno pistol (though I'll prolly be blessed weapon+inferno pistol) and she has multiple attacks, and seraphim can be given melta bombs, or possibly inferno pistols/eviscerator for tank busting, does the once again small unit of heavy weapons, with the same small model count as the Heavy Bolters, not make sense?
c) the payoff on the two units mentioned in a) and b) is that they get immolators to get them initially into position and provide some support, though it forces them down to 6 units where if they have imagifiers, even one casualty reduces their cost effectiveness. What I can do is take one immolator as a seperate Heavy Choice, but if I go for two sets of retributors I have to take one as a transport, and if one is a dominion squad (for meltaguns instead of multi-meltas) I still have to take one as a transport. My points are VERY limited due to wanting both seraphim and the repentia, though if I drop the living saint, that would give me enough points to bulk both of my special weapon squads to 10 models, and give them rhino's as transports, which would let me make both immolators heavy choices, and provide attacks/cover/back up transport. This would mean I'd field 6 tanks isntead of 4 as well, something that might add some survivability, but as they have the weapons I'm sure the immos'd go first.
d) No, I won't get rid of the repentia. I love the concept, the models, and the fact I picked up two boxes of the mistress+9 repentia for the cost of INDIVIDUAL an mistress' each, due to a typo on a website. Essentially I'm expecting to need my tanks to cover these girls from fire, I imagine that they'll be the focus of a lot of fire, hopefully taking some away from my heavy weapons units, the tanks and seraphim/leaders, but at that same time, considering their weak armour, it might just give people something useful to use weak weapons on whilst shooting big strong nasty things at my more useful units. Of course, should these get into combat with something tasty there's a good choice they'll do big damage, what with rerolls on the charge. I'm hoping a lot on psychology that guideing these girls into the enemy army will worry them. Is there a way I could further improve these wenches? Whilst I want a pure sister army, I'm somewhat tempted by buying the elite choice normal inquisitor, and the one use per game give nearby units +1 attack to try and bolster the effectiveness of these wenches, 3 attacks on that initial charge, with rerolls seems like something that might make this huge point cost pay off somehow.
f) How many models should I field? I'm currently looking at between 53/4 to 67/6 models/tank.
Sorry for the huge amount of text, some of the questions seem to have been approached before, but often in differant context, and from what I understand context is VERY important regarding choices in this game, for example there was a bolters v meltas question I noted before, which is one reason I sought advice on what might be considered redundant. If I could save points and get rid of one of my special weapons squads, I could field more normal troops, or possibly a Celestian squad (if I definatly don't take an inquisitor for aiding the repentia/fun).
I respect it might be very hard to answer these without a real army list up, so I figure once I've got some basic ideas from you guys, hopefully some more understanding of the games from you too, I can post up an army list on that forum, and then hopefully address the questions a whole lot easier. Thanks for taking the time to read all this!
Ooh! Final question, regarding conversions:
For the Priest, and definatly the Inquisitor if I do use one, I'd like them to fit the rest of the female army. So I was wondering if you guys could suggest any models, or possibly even other company's models, that would be suitable for conversion?
Bounty Hunter Necromunda
She looks pretty suited to either an inquis or a priestess really
Definatly very sistery, infact just about anything from the Sisters of Sigmar would make a good priestess
Dark Elf Cheerleader
Could be made to hold something, change a head... not quite so suitable but looks a lot easier to convert
This, would be an awesome inquisitor Oo
Still, if you guys have model suggestions please throw them my way!
Gday CRG and welcome to LO
Right on with the postI'd take neither, take a Seraphim Squad with melta bombs/Inferno Pistols. Much more effective, as they have a much greater chance of getting to the enemies big tanks (Rhino go boom!)Originally Posted by CRG
Cant say much about the Saint as I have never used her.well, if you take the dominoins, then multi meltas would make a hole lota sense, as then you would have an extremely anti tank/terminator squad. I wouldnt bother with an immolator for the HEavy Bolter Ret squad, as you want them shooting striaght away. Plus those points could go towards your Saint.Originally Posted by CRGIf you're really worried about taking causulaties just increase the squad size, to do this you'll need to get rid of the imm so you'll have some points left overOriginally Posted by CRGI presume we're talking dominoins here? They will draw a lot of fire once people realise just how many melta weapons that immolator contains. I dont use them my self, only beacuse I use seraphim in this role, but they would put the fear of the almighty into your opponent. As for making sense, its up to you as to whether you take them or not. Try a bit of experimentaion using stand in models at your club.Originally Posted by CRGDefinatley Bertha, as she just looks the buisinessOriginally Posted by CRG
Only a few prefer liberty - the majority seek nothing more than fair masters
Answer1: Dominion for it's mobility.Originally Posted by CRG
Answer2: Seraphim with 1 set of Twin-linked Infernos+1 Eviscerator for it's even better mobility. My point is that Seraphim are talented tank-hunters, and they can carry an Eviscerator which hits 3 times on the charge.She is best for dealing with very small squads of tooled up Marines.2) Is the living saint a worthwhile investment?
But you have to be prepared to deal with the D6 loss of faith.... are rather terrible vs 99% of all opponents.3) Immolators?
Tank-hunting in 4th ed is about as popular as thongs in a Nightclub.
You might consider running the Repentia behind P-Engines.
Ignoring shaken/stunned is pretty nifty compared to following an Immolator which is about as safe as standing next to a tank of nitro-glycerine.Can you clarify the above question?4) Redundancy of special weapons/units, and cost. How much is too much or too little?
a)Heavy Bolters seem like a lot of fun, 12 decent ranged shots from a 6 person group, with faith options, however I imagine they'd be a prime target, and lose models quickly. If I had an imagifier for getting faith effects I'd essentially lose effectiveness the instant I lost a model, and I'd have to lose heavy bolters each death after that to keep the unit faithful. Is a troop killing unit worth it when I have fast moving seraphim with flamers, and the repentia's who must charge at a unit that is in range? I imagine that people will send any large weak units right at the repentias to slow them down and try and get some wounds in when not shooting them.Repentias were seriously nerfed when GW took screening away and killed transports in 4th ed.b)Melta weapons: Every army has nasty things that you just want to get killed, however how much of this is a nessecity once again seeing as I want to take repentias.
There are many enemy units that can trump Repentia in many ways.
They are a broken unit, and their high cost will impact your entire army.
I suggest you keep them off the field unless 1) you are playing 'salty Marines, and 2) the game is 1850 or more.OK. Winning isn't everyting, and I applaud your bravery.d) No, I won't get rid of the repentia.
At least insist on LOS-blocking cover that's difficult to hide in.
Also get a couple of wrecked tanks and tall pointy rocks that block firelanes.
You can also use Seraphim and 2+ Cannonesses to "turn off" enemy shooting.
Only play games of 1850 points or higher.I really don't have a good answer for that.f) How many models should I field?
I'm currently looking at between 53/4 to 67/6 models/tank.
I would say that it's a no-brainer to put a Priest in with the Repentia.
YOu can convert one of your Mistresses to an Inquisitor or a Cannoness.
You prolly thought of that.
EDIT- grammar clarification.
Last edited by Red Zinfandel; November 23rd, 2005 at 02:53.