Shooting at Charactors - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    Shooting at Charactors

    Heres the set up, i have 3 squads of 2 LSTs, They all declare shooting at a tactical squad, with an attached IC. They shoot, the first 2 squads, annihilate all members of the tactical squad, leaving the character in the open. The character is not the closest squad to the other LST squad. The land speeders had already planned to shoot at the squad which includes the charactor. Can the Charactor be shot at? The other squad was out of line of sight, + there was a transport, which he forced me to shoot at. This does not make sence to me, because arent all shots shot at the same time? meaning when the other squad started shooting, they would have seen a whole tactical squad. He claims IC revert to IC, and therefore can't be shot, once the unit dies. But the IC rules state that ICs become ICs in there movement phases. Who is correct?

    On the same topic, if an IC is the only member visable in a squad, can he be shot at? Because of the LOS rules?

    Alright thanks for the replies.

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  3. #2
    Son of LO praxis's Avatar
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    If the character is out on his own, you can shoot him. If another unit is closer you have to pass a leadership test in order to shoot the more distant target. I think. only read the rules for this yesterday.
    Jager bombs. Very efficient at wiping out friend or foe.

  4. #3
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    Hey Chaos? little help? im actualy in the game still, would be great if you could give some all powerful knowledge peace.
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  5. #4
    Supreme Evil Overlord Dreachon's Avatar
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    189 (x8)

    If you declared that all 3 sqauds would fire on that tactical sqaud, then they can't target the character, you also can't target a character as lonh as he ain't the closest target.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Chaplain Stephen's Avatar
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    That would be correct if the IC wasn't attatched to the squad at the end of the opponents movement phase. From what I gather of his first post the IC was attatched to the squad and targeted by all 6 LST's (talk about overkill). The opponent boneheaded the call and stated that the IC reverted to IC status the moment the tac squad was annialated and could not be shot (pure cheese that). As the IC was attatched at the start of the shooting phase he was a just/leagal target. The opponent was a cheesehead. Let us know how it ended up.

    All so Forged, if the IC is declared part of a squad and he's the only unit you can see/have LOS at, then open up couse he's a leagel target. Shame on your opponent for failure to plan properly. Take full advantage of the situation and exploit the opportuninty.
    Last edited by Chaplain Stephen; November 26th, 2005 at 12:53.
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  7. #6
    Supreme Evil Overlord Dreachon's Avatar
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    189 (x8)

    IC don't lose their IC status when they join a unit, all their normal rules become valid again as soon as they leave the unit or the unit is destroyed.

  8. #7
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    185 (x8)

    IC don't lose their IC status when they join a unit, all their normal rules become valid again as soon as they leave the unit or the unit is destroyed.
    How do charactors not lose their IC status if they join a unit? The rules say he counts as a member of that unit untill the next movement phase. Are you sure thats not a 3rd edition rule? I searched in the rule book for anything that said that once the unit he is with dies he becomes an IC at that moment. Besides that, all shooting happens at once doesnt it? So doesnt it seem like they would shoot not knowning it would hit a character, it just happens that he would be last person alive in the squad. It sorta seems like the assault rule, the character cant hold back from assaulting, it doesnt seem like he should be hiding in the pile of his dead brothers either.

    I ended up winning, since his character wasnt strong enough to make much of a difference in the CC, that i was trying to deny him to enter.

    More help would be great
    Last edited by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar; November 26th, 2005 at 19:59.
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  9. #8
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    Independant Characters do not suddenly become something other than Independant Characters when they join squads. Some of the IC specific rules only apply to them while they're in squads while others only apply to them while they're not in squads, but they're always ICs.

    Similarly, shooting is sequencial, just as movement is. That means that you nominate a model/unit to shoot, pick a target for it, roll the dice, nominate another model to shoot, pick a target for it, roll the dice, and so on.

    So, if you shoot at squad with an attached IC and eliminate all of the members of a squad, the IC is no longer attached to a squad and all of the rules that apply to it when it is not attached to a squad will apply to it for anything you have shoot at it after that point during the round.

    Your opponent, in short, was correct. If you kill off the squad and the remaining IC is not the closest thing to the next model/unit you want to have fire upon it, you can't fire upon it.

    It is worth noting, however, that models which can not be targeted by an attacker do not count for detirmining whether they are closer to a firer than an IC. That is, if there's an IC 12" away from your Landspeeder and another squad 8" away, but you don't have LOS to the squad, you can shoot the IC.

    And yes, Vehicles do prevent you from shooting ICs by being closer to you.

    It's not that hard, and, as far as I can tell, your opponent didn't do anything illegal.

  10. #9
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    IC do not count as IC when in squad, you must alocate hits to them, just as anyother model in the squad, so if hed lost 10 wounds, in a ten model squad, including the charactor, the charactor loses a wound. Where in the rules does it say, that he is not a member of the squad? it says he can only leave a unit in the movement phase, and says nothing else. Does anyone have a page number, that says otherwise? Also, are you sure your not mixing 3rd with 4th edition? because an IC could be shot from 48"s away, so long as he was the closest. It seems dumb to me, that you can nail him from 48 inches away, but you cant shoot him along with the squad, it would have been better if 1 marine had been left, then i could have opened up with everything, and annilated the unit, why should i have to ruit against my own wounds, whe my oppoent is taking armour saves...
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  11. #10
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    Of course an IC in a squad can take hits along with the squad. That doesn't make him either a 'member of the squad' or 'not an IC'.

    Independant characters in squads can have wounds taken by the squads they're attached to allocated to them, just as other models in the squad can (though if they have different armour saves, this is restricted due to the mixed armour save rules). Yes, if there are ten marines and a captain in a squad, and the squad recieves 11 wounds, one wound must go to the captain.

    None of this in any way means that he is ever anything other than an independant character, and as far as I can tell, none of this means that your opponent cheated, either (unless he refused to allow wounds beyond what the squad could soak up from one of your units to go to the character.)

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