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I just can't use them effectively! Its impossible. I was playing a game today and any squad with a heavy weapon just gets destroyed! They are easy targets! If they get in CC with anything they are screwed! And usually after one squad is wiped out they get into another squad of guys before you inflict any damage!
Also, the Chimera! Whats the point in the lasguns at the side of it if they can't shoot forward! I mean, whatever the situation you will always be shooting forward, so when could you use them!
Does anyone have any tips because if I field any guardsmen at all they just seem to be fodder and their heavy weapons just don't seem worth it, especially when some fast attack/deep striking unit gets up close.
Uhmmm, so don't? If you don't think Guard can be effective, then don't bother. But I'm gonna err more on the side of it being your tactics and composition that's killing you on the battlefield, and not the Guard supposedly not being competitive. We could rattle off a lot of responses but it doesn't do much good if we have no idea how you're trying to play them. If you want useful information don't give only generalizations.
"I would listen to Sokhar. The man's a genius. Listen."~Lord Yossanrion"Thanks, Sokhar. There was some legitimately good advice in between the low-grade profanity, blaspheming and veiled insults."~Quick"Well thought, intelligently put, with a hint of sarcastic bastard!"~Diggum's Hammer
The lasguns on the Chimera are clearly not a fixed weapon, and they are not on a turret.
So 180 seems most appropriate. As such, they can fire straight forward.
If both rows of lasguns on the Chimera fired, they would all be able fire in front of the vehile, except for a blind spot which would be an area equivalent to a path "between the tracks" extending indefinitely in front and behind the vehicle.
I think you need to hear from IG players about how they win.
When I used to play them, the games I won was where I had most of my units shooting from cover, and 2 Basilisks firing indirect. I would agree to some extent that IG are one of the less competitive armies right now. But they can win games.
Are there any experienced IG players in your vicinity?
perhaps a few lessons might be very very valuable.
All heavy squads if possible should be placed in cover. In fact, all guard will preform better when in cover, both against enemy fire and in hth as they'll need frag grenades to even go at the same time. Just remeber not to bunch everyone too close together in the same cover, or you'll be vulnerable to blast and template weapons and to hth.Originally Posted by IbramGauntGuard are not strong in HtH, it is true, but you have to accept that fact and shoot the living bajeezus out of the eneny after they tear into on of your squads.Originally Posted by IbramGaunt
Place your units 7" apart so that they cannot be swept into after your opponent shreds one of your squads.I believe this has already been answered. But unless you are moving a squad up, I'd get them out of the Chimera ASAP, as you'll be more flexible and have more firepower outside of it.Originally Posted by IbramGauntOriginally Posted by IbramGaunt
The heavy weapon squads need to be protected by other squads, near enough to either prevent the enemy from assaulting you in the first place or taking revenge after your heavy squads get shredded. Assault weapons such as melta guns and flamers are good for this.
Honestly guard can be a very effective list and are my favorite, but they do take some getting used to.
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It seems we need more information on why they were ineffective. Perhaps your tactics or army list were off, not the armies abilitys.
Three Companies of the 26th Vinancium
143rd Airborne Badgers (99.9% done)
159th Corsair Rifles (35% done))
69th Armored Wall Busters (95% done)
Total 197 men, 12 tanks, 4 Heavy Artillery Pieces
Excellent, something for me to do again (Don't you hate it when you run out of models to paint?). Give us your army list and a breakdown on how you use every single unit and I'm sure we can fix you up (i.e whether you place them in cover a lot, where you place them a lot, what you get them to target, whether they usually wind up being a sacrificial squad and so on).Originally Posted by IbramGauntMeh, I highly doubt that this would be affecting your game. I have never, ever fired my Chimera's lasguns and it doesn't seem to have done me in.Also, the Chimera! Whats the point in the lasguns at the side of it if they can't shoot forward! I mean, whatever the situation you will always be shooting forward, so when could you use them!
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
I have a lot of Guardsmen, 3 sentinels, a Chimera and a Leman Russ.
What happened in my last game was that some grey knights were advancing towards my men. I had a squad in cover, just over 50% of them so I could get my cover save. I had an autocannon in that squad facing towards the GK's with a bloody Leman Russ beside my men aswell.
I thought everything would be fine. First turn I shot with the autocannon, got nothing. Shot with the Leman Russ Battle Cannon, missed.
Second turn, shot again with autocannon, nothing. Shot with 9 heavy bolters from my leman russ, NOTHING!
They shot with their storm bolters, wiped out nearly half of my squad(lucky some were in cover.)
Third turn my Leman Russ killed six of them with the Battle Cannon then I had another squad nearby and when I advanced towards them I was eventually wiped out, but wiped out his GK squad with the cost of a lot of men.
Thats one situation. I will post some others later.
Ok, first. Why did you fire the heavy bolters? They are not very effective against the GK, the battle cannon is. You should have fired the battle cannon. The same goes for Autocannons. You were unlikely to inflict a swathe of casulties with autocannon, I would be cheering if I got one.Originally Posted by IbramGaunt
Next point. Why did you advance? You should have ingnored the GK with the rest of your squads until they were a threat, let the leman russ deal with them. And even then, when they did become a threat you should have just shot them, not advanced. Andvancing brings you out of cover and puts you closer to assault, the last place you want to be. Have you been reading that crap in the Imperial Guardsman's primer? When in doubt advance? I say when in doubt either run away or shoot at something!! That stuff's just for fluff, don't apply it to your game.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
Also, remember that with Ordnance you can't simply miss, it's more of a hit or a scatter, 1D6 if stationary, 2D6 if you moved (of course, I have been known to forget these rules, so I may be wrong). Also, you're playing an army that uses 3+ and 2+ saves, bring plasma guns. Sure, you'll get some toasy guardsmen every once in a while, but toasting a GK pays up for that guardsman. Missle launchers instakill SM, and same goes for lascannons versus terminators. Remember that your ordnance are almighty.
And I quote: "Men and guns are fine, but give me more tanks!"
One of my favorite quotes ever, from an IG general type dude. IG love tanks, so take a lot.Leman Russ are great for most situations, basilisks are great for big boards where you can indirect fire, and demolishers are great for close fighting. I would recommend not spending lots of points on sponson weapons, as your turret will almost always be better. Heck, I don't even play IG and I know this! Ogryns are handy, and I've heard good things about sentinels.
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.