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So i just got IA3 and cant help but noticing that the cost of flyers is very high but the armor value is very low, i know they get the 6 to hit and all hits glancing rule but im curious how flyers compare to tanks as far as survivability goes.
Would appreciate advice from anyone who has used these before.
The book is cool and the art is very nice, different from GW products anyways but elysian drop troops list are very disapointing, IMO better off using IG codex.
You have to remember that getting anything with Leman Russ or (God forbid) Land Raider armor to fly is near impossible. Planes and helicopters actually are kind of fragile. Don't forget that the 40k flyers also get to fly across the board and be gone. Any plane coming in with troops is going to come under heavy fire and might get shot down. Every single bit of history that has to do with troops coming in by parachute or chopper will back this up. Personally, I stay away from them for this very reason.
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Flyers are cool ways to give your army personality, but in terms of effectiveness? I personally don't like them.
They are generally pretty expensive, and the rules are complicated.
1. IMO, the rule about glancing-hits-only is kind of cancelled out by the new damage table they have to follow (i.e. immobilized = destroyed, etc.)
2. Only being hit on a 6 is pretty good, and may force your opponent (especially high-BS MEQ's) to focus an unproportionate amount of fire on it. However, the light armor means that cheaper, multi-shot guns (like autocannons) will do the job without involving lascannons or heavier guns. Also, against low-BS armies like orks, who never count on their accuracy anyways, this rule isn't very effective.
3. Maybe I'm just an imbecile, but half of the time I forget to roll to see if it comes in, or to move it and shoot it in the right sequence, and usually forget about it until I already started the next phase... So for dim-wits like me, the special rules can be very cumbersome and may be too much for our brains to handle... :wacko:
So generally I stay away from them. I did convert an old model jet I had into an IG napalm-bomber, using dual inferno cannons, but I could never seem to make it cost-effective, and eventually gave up. I don't doubt that a skillful player, against the right opponent, could make a flyer a very annoying target. But since I mostly play orks mine goes down to big-shoota fire too easily for my liking.
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That rule only applies to super-heavy flyers, all other flyers (Like the Valkyrie and Vulture) use the normal damage tables, iirc.Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
The best way to use a flyer is to stand off at long range... non AA-mount weapons have -12" on their range when fighting aircraft, so if you sit far enough away, you can bomb the enemy army to bits and only take long range attacks like lascannons in return...
Message to GW: Make more ForgeWorld rules official...
The Super-Heavies use the different table in Imperial Armour, but an immobilized flyer is like an immobilized skimmer, they crash. However, Harbish makes an important point: any weapon that doesn't have an Anti-Aircraft mount (in all likelihood, probably every weapon in your opponent's army) subtracts 12" from their max range. The flyer's weapons however, are unaffected by this limitation. That advantage is huge, and anyone who doesn't utilize it to the fullest is a fool. If you configure your flyers to carry sufficient long-range weaponry you can be almost impervious to enemy weaponry. If its using autocannons, lascannons or missile launchers, the only thing that could target you is a battle cannon or similarly large weapon that would only have a 1/6 chance of hitting anyway. Alternately you could also use a battery of heavy bombs at range before moving in closer to the enemy to use shorter range guns like the heavy bolter.
The key to using flyers is to make the most of their abilities, to minimize your risk unless it is calculated to be offset by the potential damage the flyer can inflict on the enemy. Flyers are kind of like Eldar units--fragile, but powerful when used properly. Just because it is not as resilient as a Leman Russ does not detract from their usefulness.
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Take a chaff launcher upgrade, it lets you reroll an immobilized result once per game, pretty cunning huh. :ninja:Originally Posted by Sokhar
Message to GW: Make more ForgeWorld rules official...
Originally Posted by Sokhar
Yeah thats what i was thinking of doing, do most opponents allow the use of flyers?Or am i going to spend a but load of money on forge world products i wont be able to use?
Sokhar has a whole heap of good points. It's difficult to put into words just how vital that added range rule is, but it is indeed huge. Even heavy weapons aren't going to be able to engage it at ranges much longer than most medium weapons can reach. Since those guns generally don't move, it's almost a matter of whether or not you choose to put the flyer in danger more than whether your opponent wants to threaten it.
There were a pair of Valkyries/Vultures (don't really remember which, now...) at Astronomi-con 2 years ago, and I faced them in the tournament. They were a real pain to get rid of - my Inducted Guard spent several turns lobbing Autocannon shells and Lascannon bursts at them with very little effect. It ultimately came down to a point blank burst from my Grey Knight Terminator squad's Psycannon to knock it out of the sky, and despite all the other armies present (everything from Orks to Tau, lotsa guns of all sizes) It turned out that I was the only one in 6 games to so much as scratch one of the Flyers, let alone bring it down.
From that performance, I'd agree that unless you put it in front of a wall of Lascannons or such, any army without specific anti-aircraft preparations should have a pretty rough time dropping it.
Last edited by Wraith; December 15th, 2005 at 14:45.
Lots of good feedback, thanks for the help guys.
I was on the fence about ordering them from forge world, 2 valkyries and 2 vultures comes out to 600$ wich is alot of money if they end up sucking, i absolutely love the look/idea of a air cav based IG/DH force.
The only thing im still a little worried about is being able to use them in games, i noticed you mentioned facing them in a tourney situation wraith, what can i expect as far as the tournements and the average player? Are most people cool about letting people use them in games?
Another thing i was wondering is the rules, IA3 has 2 appendices for flyers one for the basic rules and another for advanced rules, the advanced rules make flyers WAY more efficient by allowing you to target multiple units for every weapon type. In yoru experience wich rules do people use, the basics or the advances ones?
Originally Posted by Loranis
Hmm... well, I think it will probably really come down to the tournament in question. Astronomi-con, in my case, is an awesome event that's specifically designed to let anything from vanilla Marines to full-on Forge World duke it out. Chapter approved, Forge World, Special Characters, even VDR (subject to approval) are all allowed and even encouraged. Now, not everybody is fortunate enough to have tournaments of quite that caliber near them, but in my experience so long as you abide by tourney rules and don't go overboard with your special units (be sporting instead of tweaking the army to win at all costs), you shouldn't run into too many problems.
I know that I like the opportunity to face unusual stuff, and so do most of the gamers I play with. Shooting squads of plain old Marines/Guardsmen/Gaunts/Eldar/etc all the time is fine and all, but IMHO the real fun part is the times when you get to figure out ways to deal with, say, a Nightbringer, or a Phoenix Lord, or a Talos, or maybe some of the various Forge World Leman Russes... Get the idea? so long as it's still fun to play, odd stuff is good.