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Ok, I have Blood angels and I want to get a new army. I like Space marines a good deal, but would have to do something different. So I like the Ravenwing, but their overpriced units and poor rules are rubbish, so I was thinking after reading the SM codex to make ravenwing, but use the SM codex.
Has anyone been doing this? I could give them Be Swift As The Wind, take 3 squads of three tornadoes as Fast Attack, my troops and elites all bikes, with attack bikes thrown in and have one of the elites joined by a Chaplain on bike.
This sounds like ravenwing with only a few notable differences, most good being.
no attack bike squads for heavy.
can give the elite bikes furious charge.
don't have to take that 255 point master, can be led by a cheaper and better chaplain.
can still give bikes the riders 6+ jink.
bikes cost a base of 32 points instead of 45.
all other units are as good but alot cheaper, so I get way more units.
Is this genious or am I missing something? THanks alot.
ok you got ravenwing all wrong,if they didnt have overpriced units they would unbalance the game,(their like deathwing value but in a different aspect)and rules rubbish?better look again Assualt Cannons- rending,can have a combo of AC and MM on land speeder,reroll difficult terrian test,6+ invul where ever they go.Ravenwing bikes are not 45 pts its 40 pts,it hasent changed and faq hasent changed it,I dont know where your getting 45 pts,are you adding stubborn?.Ravenwing dont take stubborn,and their not intractable either.
Another thing Ravenwing Bikers are worth 40 points,they get to reroll fail terrian test(which count as dangeous,so if you get a 1 reroll it),and get 6+ invul save,toughness of 5,twin-like bolters.Plain and simple if you want a bike/speeder army go ravenwing,there is no way around it by going space marines doing swift of the wind,being cheap.If your swift of the wind army vs ravenwing.Against true speed of the RW you will be dead before you know it.Even though Ravenwing are small a small force,but they can eat a army for breakfest.
Where does the 6+ jink save come from if you play a trait army? I can only assume it's from the Expert Rider skill, however I have no clue where the rules for this skill can be found. Skilled Rider, yes. Expert Rider, no.
I'm rather curious what the difference would be as well. The only one I thought that was there was the 6+ jink save, but aparently I was wrong on that. MM/AC Landspeeders are a nice addition though.
You dont HAVE to take a Master of the Ravenwing on Speeder.
Ravenwing are less points than that.
You cant give trait Bikers a 6+ invulnerable.
Plus Ravenwing LST's get a free 6+ invulnerable for no points increase.
So Ravenwing are the way to go.
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I can't find your reference for Bikes as Troops or the 6+ jink save. Your Elite bikes will cost you more than 32 points as you have to buy a skill with them. And as mentioned the Ravenwing get to re-roll difficult terrain tests (crossing rivers, assaulting into cover, City Fights, etc).
It will still be a bike/speeder heavy army but it won't quite have the bells and whistles of a Ravenwing army.
War Record Since Sept 2005
Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar
NOw I'm just thinking here. I like the feel of the ravenwing too or I wouldn't want to make one or one like it.
I'm looking at the D. Angels codex right now and it says under fast attack
Ravenwing Biker 45 points
veteran sergeant +15
attack bike +75
ok and tornados are 85 points so that 6+ invul isn't free it's 5 points. And in the space marine codex under the Swift as wind trait it says that bikes can be taken as troops, have to be at least five models strong, can take expert riders for +2 points, and any taken as elites can take furious charge for +3.
I looked in the rulebook and it says skilled riders means you re-roll diffficult terrain test so expert riders means 6+ right? don't blame me, there are so many codeces, rulebooks, faq, rules changes and updatres, it's almost impossible to make up a legal army list.
So I would rather have a bike for 35 points that has furious charge or for 37 that also has expert riders than just a 45 point bike that only has expert riders. That means I get more bikes right?
And to add fire power you can upgrade one in the squad for 18 points and it is now an attack bikewith heavy bolter. AND...their attack bikes have two wound instead of a 2+. c'mon. tell me I'm wrong here. It's not like this would be cheap. Ravenwing are overpriced and one of the worst armies already. So why not take the bikes fo less?
sorry I should clarify. I just said ravenwing is one of the worst armies in the game, but maybe i shouldn't have said this. I don't want this to turn into a discussion of people defending their favourite army, but rather critiqueing my swift as the wind idea.
i was just thinking that since GW has a habbit of releasing new rules and codeces one by one instead of all at once, the older armies sometimes get the short end of the stick because for example the SM codex got rewritten and they lowered the cost of bikes, but the DA codex is old and they didn't get the new changes, and I feel that hurts ravenwing.
but when you tell me that they have to be more expensive because you get so many or it would be overbalanced, as the DA all termy army I don't agree. In fact I think that you are at a dissadvantage because it is harder to have a well balanced army. I'm just weighing different factors on what army to get. I like the all bike and speeder army, but I also want to get one of the better armies to win with. MAybe I'm wrong, Tell so, maybe they are very good.
If you use the DA FAQ from GW online you will discover that northoceanbeach is incorrect in almost everything he says. (Plus a 2nd edition DA codex).
Ravenwing are not 45pts, they are less. They also have skilled rider and a 6+ invulnerable.
Ravenwing LST's are not 85pts they are less as although our basic skimmer hulls are more, our Assault Cannon cost less.
Attack Bike with Heavy Bolter for Ravenwing is substantialy less than you quote.
Ravenwing can be great, they have decent rules, they arent quite value for oney on the bikers, but LST's get a free upgrade. The Master can rock. The army is hugely tactical and Bikers with Turboboost are better than when Codex DA was written.
Wheres Chaosbrynn, Ravenwing Master when you need him?
Every time you read this sig: a fairie dies!
no wonder,he was getting the wrong point value.Now do you have second thoughts?
Just because the Space Marines codex has been updated to be more effective doesn't mean that Ravenwing is any less strong than it always was. The Space Marines codex was changed to make it so that it is equal the non-codex chapters Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Black Templars. Before the update, there was no reason not to play a non-codex chapter.
There is no better option when deciding between a Be Swift as the Wind chapter and Ravenwing. There are pros and cons to each, so its up to you to look at the codexes and weigh them yourself.
And don't you dare diss the Master of Ravenwing's Landspeeder. Yes it's expensive as hell and impractical for most games, but he is a BEAST for what he can do, especially with the new assualt cannon rules. Also, note that the Master of Ravenwing on Bike's cost is -30 points, since they included the cost of the Raven Sword, but it's actually optional.
"Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the conquest of it." -Anon