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i have been reading this forum for a little while and have noticed that when anybody askes for an alternativ unit nearly evryone suggests Veterans over Storm Troopers. while im not that experianced i find this remarkable. my understanding is that the guard relies on shooting to ge the job done, and for good reson. low saves, low I, S, and T, and slim mobility. and while the basic squads can shoot like hell, we all want a little more. but why Veterans? if not useing doctrines you only 1 Vet squad to 3 troopers, if useing Doctrines you are probably going to need to put a point on both for them to get more that one squad. they have reletevaly the same options: meltas, flamers, plasma, gren launchers, both can take chimeras and both can infiltrate (storms can with points spent). both have vox, both can take krak and frag gren (Vets pay points for both types), both can get to the armory (storms must pay), both have same BS and Ld. the diferences are notable as well. while sorm troopers have Hellguns and targeters, Vets have more wepon options with the las gun/shotgun/laspistol and cc weapon. Storms have a 4+ save whle Vets have 5+, Vets have heavy weapon options and storms dont. vets are cheaper per model (if storms take vet sgt. it costs a little more but they have to take the upgrade) and may have one more special weapon option than storms. storms can deep strike while vets need the drop troop point.
without buying anything not required the storms are more expensiv by only 7 pts, but once one adds special and heavy wepons the points cost is different with the storm troopers cheeper by some 28 pts. if, for the sake of argument, you add the cost of the grenades the vets would have to buy to match the troopers the pts differance to 58 Pts.
however, rarly are you going to find frags on a vet squad and Krak Grens are = rare to my experiance. storms are not the = of vets for raw fire power, but vets cannot mach the troopers for armor or versatility. personaly i perfer the storms over vets but i would likesome input.
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Well I prefer Vets to be honest, just for fire power really. Their BS is definitley the biggest advantage, plus they get to infiltrate for free. Also, they have the option to have a heavy weapon team plus 3 special weapons! You gotta love that. What I like about them is that I can give them a Lascannon, 3 Plasmas then infiltrate them into the best position to take down some tanks. I'd infiltrate them usually in cover and maybe give them Cameleoline and you are set.
You could also make them anti-infantry, just by switching the lascannon with a heavy bolter, or maybe an autocannon so it can take down both infantry and most types of vehicles.
Storm troopers are a bit expensive for my liking. Sure they have frags and kraks, but I rarely use them. They are basically vets with better armour, slightly better guns. Thats about it. I would opt to take veterans over Storm Troopers any day.
Well the difference between two plasma guns, and three plasma guns and a lascannon are huge. The vets can infiltrate so they can just set up in cover and blast away
also vets can get a powerfist, stormies cant.
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While I love my Stormies and Grenadiers, Vets are the best Elite choice IG can get, just for the sheer firepower. A Lascannon, 3 Plasma Squad w/Cameoleline is as cheese as IG gets.
There is room for both however.
Vets are better for long range firepower and DS suicide squads.
Stormies are way better at holding and getting Objectives, running around in Chimeras, Assault (yes sometimes its needed), and Deepstriking and lasting behind enemy lines.
The IG list I normally play has 2 or 3 squads of Grenadiers in Chimeras, and three squads of Veterans with Lascannons and at least one Plasma Gun. An almost BS4 Guard army.
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My army list, once I get all the models, is very similar to this. It has 2 squads of storm troopers mounted in chimeras along with 3 squads of veterans. I would agree with the concensus here that veterans are better than storm troopers. Remember, if you are playing with doctrines (which I would assume most are), you would have to invest a point into the storm trooper squads just as you would have to put a point into the veterans doctrine in order to have more than 1 veteran squad, so that comes out a wash in my eyes. Secondly, if you were to take a full squad of 10 veterans and put carapace armor on them, they would come out to the same cost of a 10-man storm trooper squad (100 pts), with the same exact statline, but have the option of taking a heavy weapon platform and 1 extra special weapon. Now, in terms of manueverability the storm troopers would have the upper hand on the veterans, so they still have tactical advantages. Overall, however, I prefer the veterans over the storm troopers.Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer
I think most of the advantages have been summed up, they are more versatile, they have an additional SW slot, a HW slot, and the sgt. can get more upgrades.
I would also add that they can get access to some of the doctrines that apply to guard infantry. Storm Troopers cannot.
That means that you could ptenetialy give veterans carapace armour. Making them just as tough as Storm Troopers, in fact, essentialy making them Strom Troopers. Or you could give them Chemelioline for half the cost, which makes them a very tough nut to crack in cover.
Not to mention some of the other abilities this gives them access to.
In Storm Trooper's defence, there are two main advantages of this unit:
1. Is the fact that they get frags and kraks for free (this isn't particularly important) but grenades are surprisingly effective. The reason nobody takes them is because they generaly aren't worth their points. Well guess what!? These guys get them for free.
2. Most importantly: Storm Troopers can be taken as a troop choice. This means that they need not occupy the same precious elites slots as veterans.
You guys gotta remember the best part about this game is winning. im just amazed at how close our armies are when at their respective marks, beaker & Diggums.... I too want to get just a bit more shooty although i like to gamble alot more so instead of the Vets i wanna field 3 chimeras (one for the HQ), and 12 sentinels (with one of each heavy support to lend aid where necessary) YAY for standy robots of shooty doom!
thanks for the advice. i think ill still keep with my Troopers for the mobility that lacks in my guard army. but ill definetaly take a look into the vets.
I use stormtroopers because of the ability to deepstrike them without having to take the droptroops doctrine for my entire army. I already have 2 heavy weapon squads with the light infantry doctrine that can infiltrate to take out armor, the deepstrike ability adds mobility for contesting objectives or sneak-attacking entrenched armor.
So I guess use what works best with your list.
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