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He start out with 2 units on the board. The first is his all aspiring champions on bikes one with demon host on it. They will have 2/5 save. Next is his Lord on bike by himself. The Lord is also a 2/5 save.
On turn 1 They will turbo boost to you. You might be able to kill all his champions(he has 6)
If so you will have greater demon looking at you keeper of secerts. His lord will have a minor power called siren. You will not be able to shoot or assault his lord with this power.
Turn 2- He will summon 6 troops choices of demonettes and 3 fast attack demonettes on steeds(they are in chapter approved). With the keeper, demonettes and his Lord will charge you.What makes it so hard it that the demonetes will charge you and you will not get shoot off. Also the keeper will be the same way and his lord will be in your lines chopping up your guards units.
I have thrown an 30 man conscript unit at the keeper to keep it tie up.
Any ideas how to defeat this?
Well first off concentrate all fire on his aspiring champinons, take lascannons, plasma guns, and if you can take a demolsher. Since all his points are invested in daemons that arent even on the board yet, it looks like he doesn't have alot of anit-tank power so your good their. With your entire army shooting at his bikes, they wont last long, and if you kill the models with daemonic icons he can't summon them. So then that leaves with his HQ and with his keeper of secerts. Concentrate all fire on the daemon, it'll go down soon. Then there will be his HQ. Thats a problem since you can't shoot him. Get into base to base contact with him, than the power has no affect, than fix bayonets and charge! And if all else fails you can take inquistion allies and get some sweet anti pysker powers, such as hammer of the witch, which doesn't matter if you can't target him. Good luck, hope this helps.
Oh and if you kill the unit of champions, he can't summon the daemonettes
A squad of grey knights might be very useful. Between demonic and turbo invs they are goin to make saves even against your better weapons, so you might also switch to autocannons or heavy bolters to get more shots. Ratling snipers could become useful against the demons, cause their demonic save ain't that high. Anyway take tanks and remember the guards golden rule: never let em consolidate into another cc, all your squads must be 7" spaced.
Its true that he will always get his save but with AP2 weapons he will get a 5 inv save as opposed to his regular save
The only daemons with a regular save aside from it's invunerable ones are the Bloodthirster and Bloodletters, neither of whom are allowed in a Slaanesh army since they are Khornate daemons.Originally Posted by Inquisitor Leet
Now, I'm a World Eaters player myself and my World Eaters list sounds quite similar to this one, though you'd need to chance the Keeper of Secrets for a Bloodthirster, drop the Mounted Daemonettes for two Khornate Dreadnoughts and the regular Daemonettes for Bloodletters. Add in a few Khorne-marked Chaos Space Marine Bikes to that and you've got my list. :>
Now, the deal with these 'daemon-bomb' lists is to hit them hard before they get their numbers in, sounds simple but it ain't. Unlike my army however, this one has an advantage, Daemonettes are about half the price of a Bloodletter, so it's got numbers and with numbers you can field more squads and with more squads you're more likely to succeed with more summoning rolls. It's not as simple just to gun down the summoning champions, since turboboost makes their save invunerable, but they'll probably be making good use of any terrain there is to shield them from your guns.
What to do against this then? Once the daemons have been summoned they're the priority target, especially the Mounted Daemonettes, if they're summoned from a turboboosted bike they can easily be in close combat on turn 2 and what's worse is that they've got Rending attacks, so not even a Leman Russ is safe from them. They're like extra fast Genestealers which makes them quite nasty, however they don't last long if shot at... which is the tricky part.
Now, his army will be low number for the first few rounds and the few units he'll have will probably be hiding behind terrain when deployed incase you get the first round... which leaves us with plenty of space to work with. A basilisk could cause some serious damage if you're lucky, but scatter ain't that reliable so I wouldn't count on it. Any good with the scatterdie?
Against the Keeper and the Daemon Prince there's only lascannons and plasmaguns that have any real effect on them, because massed fire will be far more effective against the Daemonettes - against lasguns they're just as resiliant as guardsmen.
An army that uses terrain to their advantage this much is a good spot for the otherwise useless mortar, with a Daemonettes thoughness and save it's not that bad accually. Especially since Daemonettes can be pinned.(I wasn't sure about this at first, so I asked in the chatroom and Rork said they could so don't blame me if I'm wrong. ) In short, pinned daemonettes die.
Vehicle mounted flamers would also be neat, but don't put it on an expensive Russ - Use hellhounds, chimerae and sentinels. When a Daemonette is attacking a vehicle it's only the rending attacks that matter anyways, so against non-rending attacks a Sentinel is just as impregnable as a Russ. Especially Sentinels will be good here, since if they're assaulted as many Daemonettes as possible will have to get into base contact with it and because it's open topped, the chance is high that it'll and take quite a few of them with him. Sad part is that because a Sentinel has a WS value they'll be able to consilidate afterwards, so using a Chimera for this might be just as good.
If you do use a Chimera as bait for the 'nettes, depending on how good shot you can get with them any flamer(remember that you can open the hatch and fire - you're only open topped against enemy shooting so there's no real penalty) Also remember the chimera lasguns, daemonettes die when shot, so they might even score a kill or two.
If you don't think you'll kill a good bunch of them with the chimerae's shooting, then make sure you move 12". If they try and assault your tank, they'll only hit on 6's which will reduce the chance of any attacks being rending.
Remember to use your Chimerae in teams, so that when the Daemonettes destroy the first one you've got another mobile fireplatform that can move forward and fire at the daemonettes packed toghether along the wreckage of the last Chimerae.
I wouldn't recommend using battlecannons againt the 'nettes, the heavy bolters will probably score more kills in this case. 4+, 2+ and a 4- to kill them.
That's all I can think of for now. Grey Knights might be good against the bikes, but the Daemonettes will tear them appart with their rending so they might not take their points back. Besides, Guard armies are much cooler without any allies. :>
I should have clarifeid, I meant, use the lascannons against the bikes, but I forgot that turbo boosting makes hte save inv.
Thanks for the input guys. Kaiser, I like your idea of putting flamers on chimeras and using sentiels. I will probably using some mech troops in chimeras. Plus I use a 40 man conscripts to tie up either his lord or keeper of secerts. I will try to create space from the demonettes so I can gun them down.
I'd say If your going to go down the conscript route taking an IND commisar with a trademark Item will work wonders, just keep him at the back of the unit, can't beat re-rollable LD10 :yes:
I've also found that certain scenarios can do In slaanesh I as they usually end up dumping all their demons In one place thus having extra mobility for objectives may help.
Thanks cadian for the input. I was planning on taking and independent commisar but the trademark is a great idea.
Include a detachment of Harlequin with the following Statistics:
Great Harlequin , Masque of the Laughing God , neuro disruptor , power wpn ,
Tanglfoot grenades. Shadowseer , Familiar Group (4 Familiars)*, Veil of tears ,
misdirection , Neuro Disruptor , CC Wpn, Troupes-Troupe Warlock , Shuriken Pistol, CC Wpn, (9) Troupes , 2 Harlequins Kiss and Fusion Pistol, (6) Shuriken Pistol and CC Wpn, all with Tanglefoot Grenades.
Keep your shadowseer and Great Harlequin with your troupe, behind other models as they can not be independantly targeted. Also, shadowseer psyker abilities makes your troupe hard to see or assault, much less hit. Time your move to where your other unit hits the enemy unit from the flank simultaneously with your troupes at the other side of them, use terrain to your advantage it is your best friend. Your warlock allows your troupes, not him or any other ind char attached, +1 attack ea when charging, combined with cutting in half your opponents initiative w/tanglefoot grenades you will devistate them.
These are as per 40K 4th edition revised Harlequin codex available online @ eldaronline.com. Please let me know what you think.
Last edited by cirquemeter; January 7th, 2006 at 05:06.