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My question is about IST's. I plan to take 2 squads of 10 with plasma or melta, in rhinos with smoke and extram armor in just about every list I play. However, I seriously thinking of deploying more than 2 squads.
They seem to be move and shoot units that are best within 12", hence the rhino deployment. But how well do they perform on foot?
Would 2 mobile squads and 1 foot slogging squad be sensible? how about 2 and 2?
Assuming 2 ten point special weapon in each squad, and ten guys per squad. We're looking at 596 points for 2 mobile/2 foot-slogging squads. 40 models. kraks and frags, 8 special weapons, and a ton of hell guns. Sounds particularly lethal, even from the grizzled space marine player... and more importantly, very cost-effective. For about another 30 points, I can add PF(!) to my melta gun squads. this makes them effective assaulters as well.
Mediocre. Fairly low armor save, low toughness, standard infantry speed, and short ranged weapons. And all for not much cheaper than SoB or vanilla SM. Not that they're *bad*, but I wouldn't call them anything special.But how well do they perform on foot?
Then again, if you're running a pair of units in transports and then one or more on foot, the ones on foot'll live a lot longer as they'd be delegated to a secondary threat. But you'd be hard pressed to get them into the fight in time.
If you want to go the IST path, I'd do this: 2x10 IST squads in Rhinos or Chimeras, with 2x meltaguns in each one and NO Sarge upgrade or extra grenades. Then, 1+ 10 IST squads with plasma OR grenade launchers (as they both have longer ranges - make sure not to mix them in a unit though), no Sarge, no extra grenades. Use the swarm concept of plenty of bodies to protect your special weapons, basically. Sergeants are too expensive for what you get - an IST sarge with PF is the same cost as a Justicar, who is worlds better.
Have I missed something obvious here? What is PF?? Sounds like a powerfist to me but thats 25pts.
PF I believe is indeed power fist, people are just slightly confused about the cost (which you have right). In any event: slapping a power fist or even a power weapon on an IST Sarge (technically called a Veteran in the Codex, but who cares) is, no offense, pretty idiotic. They're Guard, for chrissakes! As mEGALOMANIAC pointed out, this'd cost you about as much as a GK Justicar.
Probably the one of the most important things to remember when constructing an army is that every unit has an inherant function or role. Guard were made for shooting (and dying in droves). Grey Knights were made for kickin' ass and taking names.
For my own army I'm currently considering taking something akin to what mEGALO is suggesting. Two squads of 5 IST (w/ sarge, TP homer; 2x meltas) in Rhinos and two squads of 5 w/ 2x plasma in Chimeras, as well as an shooty Inquisitor and rentinue in a Chimera. Throw in some FAGK and you have a remarkably mobile DH force.
Although I don't often field them, their main plus is that it is a cheap way to both fill your mandatory Troop slots AND get 2 plasma guns per squad (with a good BS) out of it, all for less than 100 pts.
Yeah, their armor save ain't great, but it can get a save against bolter fire.
As for a transport excuse, I'd pass as you now are making their cost effectiveness go down.
Not really... These boys do best at 12" and in, so any time spent beyond that footslogging it across a table is pure points wasted. Anyhow, a Chimera (pricey though it may be) can be a nasty little piece of machinery if you can keep the AT firepower off of it. It's no Predator, but that Multilaser and Heavy Bolter can lend your IST's a nice antipersonnel punch.Originally Posted by Laplace
And, on a slightly more cynical note, once it's dead, that's at least 1 less heavy weapon shot directed at your GK forces. (or whatever other expensive stuff you've got)
they do need a transport unless you go the grenade launcher route - then they can moove and shoot ata decent range.
the vets arent usually worth the points (they are seriously over priced) with the possible exception of one with a combi melta for that extra shot on that tank that you NEED to take down.
as a matter of personal preference i cant stand plasma weapons on my stormies. they always overheat on me, everytime. even when i only single tap i always seem to role snake eyes and fry em both. points down the toilet for me. i have terrible luck though so i tend not to gamble at all and most people swear by them to. personally i just take more melta guns - as anti tank is somthing we need anyhow, and the high strength and assault quality are nice.
I recommend two squads of 6 ISTs (2x Plasma Guns) in Chimeras (ML/HM). They are great light tanks filled with creamy plasma death.
Thanks for all of the comments, folks. Question: Why are short squads recommended? I usually take 10 man squad of marines. 6 IST's will go down pretty fast and become non-scoring units even faster....
always take a full squad, unless its a suicide squad (as 6 with 2x plasma clearly are). plasma sucks. might as well melt your minis with lighter fluid and a match before you play because thats how theyre going to look....