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(Note: I accidentally posted this in the Army List area and I wasn't sure how to move it... sorry dor duplicate threads on different areas!)
I've been playing aIG for a little while, and have suddenly found myself with enough tanks to actually be able to field an AC army!
I'm wondering which tanks and what layouts are best? I play against two different SM armies (one troop-heavy and the other relying more on vehicles), and I'm not sure what to field.
So far I'm thinking A LR Vanquisher for my HQ and two vanilla LRs for my troops. Then I have a Bassie and a Demolisher (I know I'll field the bassie, not sure about the Dmolisher). I also am thinking of fielding a Techpriest in a chimera or a squad of Storm Troopers, maybe a Hellhound...
Which doctrines are best to take? Against an assault-oriented SM army I was thinking of taking the one that lets my sponsons fire in CC and evasive driving, as well as anti-mag armor or heavy ceramite... again, not sure!
I've looked through the different AC lists but there's a decent amount of variety so I figured I'd appeal to all who've played AC so that I might learn from their mistakes.
Lastly, what's the best layout for a LR, gun-wise, against SM? I keep seeing people post about how great it is to have three HBs, but I almost feel like a hull LC might be more useful against my smurfy foes...
I know experience is the best way of finding this stuff out, but I've lost to him so many times at this point that I want to win one flat-out! Thanks guys!
IMHO, the best tanks available to guard are Leman Russes, Exterminators, Demolishers and Sentinels.
The best weapon loadout for the Leman Russ is the 3x H.Bolter loadout. Fighting against anything but marines, the HBs are generaly more effective than the Battlecannon! But the battlecannon still scares them.
The Leman Russ Exterminator will do much the same thing, but it trades it's Battlecannon for a TL Autocannon - again, army this tank with 3 HB and you suddenly have 11 shots that kill most basic infantry on 4s. It's more effective in a fire support role than the BT, but it isn't as multi-puropse, and it generaly dosen't have the same phycological effect on the enemy.
The Demolisher will provide some much needed AP2 to your army. I favour the 2x Plasmacannon, 1x Lascannon combo - but it is very expensive and draws a lot of fire.
I advise that you use Sentinels as mobile Heavy weapons bases much needed in AC.
Also, rather than paying for the Vanquisher, you can buy AT shells for Russes at +20pts. It makes them slightly cheaper.
Hellhounds are effective, but in my experience - these guys are too soft to carry the weapon they do. This is an extremley scary weapon on an AV12 tank, when you could buy 3x Heavy Flamer armed Sentinels for the same price... Just a thought.
i definitely agree with Xethemez on the first two best tanks avalaible. i don't exactly agree with his views on sentinels and hellhounds though. the inferno cannon rules are pretty darn good 24 inches away arrange the template any way you want within 24 inches. plus the rule on hitting. yes it has low armour but, if used well in conjunction with a couple heavier armoured vehicles, can be very nasty to troops.
vanquisher isn't that great unless you play on an absolutley HUGE table. you can use ANTITANK ROUNDS doctrine and give antitank rounds to yer HQ and Tank Aces that'll do the same job for less points cost. two of my battle cannons are customised for this reason. they are longer than regular battle cannon but nothing sez they have to be vanquisher since they're custom.
one leman russ exterminator (easy custom job if you have a couple autocannons left from the heavy weapons sprue) isn't a bad idea.
conqueror wouldn't be too bad. i have yet to make or aquire one. i'd rather do a custom than order from forgeworld. i like the exterminator better though. these days a small blast doesn't usually do much when i play. people know to spread out for fear of pie plates or small blast from me.
tank hunter. hmmm mebbe a costly custom. i don't have one. attactive for the range of the cannon and strength. rare model.... would be great facing an enemy army with some real tough guys. i think i like the antitank rounds better still.
as for lascannons. i have some in my AC but they're not accompanied by sponson H Bolters. well except one example which i sometimes take on the table for my HQ. lascannons on plain hulls with no sponsons is good for tank aces since they have improved BS. lascannon can be backup for weapon destroyed on damage table. got a demolisher with 1 lascannon and two plasma cannons, hoping i don't get assaulted i stay stationary for one turn so i can fire off all my weapons, not always a great idea.
the 3 heavy bolter option.. i have 2 of these. i like taking "troops" with this option. my exterminator and a battle cannon or two battle cannons. the number of shots makes up for the BS of the regular tanks.
example: 1 leman russ and 1 leman russ exterminator each with 3 H. Bolters. side by side blasting into a bunch of decently tough enemy. 2 autocannon shots and 18 heavy bolter shots!
the idea of a hull heavy bolter and just a battle cannon is usually to have a few tanks dedicated to always firing yer pie plate while still havivng decent armour to take some enemy fire. cheapest battle cannon in armoured company.
main thing i do is never glue my engine covers or turrets to the hulls. this way if i want to make my demolisher a dedicated demolisher cannon and not spend points on sponson plamsa cannons i can put the engine cover and turret on a leman russ hull with all H bolters.
a hellhound is great to have in yer armoured company. the rules for the inferno cannon are just too awsome i'm thinking that i may add another if i can afford it.
sentinels... i have some. mixed emotions on them though. good at distracting enemy for one.. maybe two turns... they get taken down really fast. i like the autocannon option the best with the range of a lascannon and two shots. lascannon is ok but expensive and the BS sucks so you'd need more than one lascannon sentinel to make it worth it in my opinion. the multilaser is a good weapon for it's strength and cost but range is too short.
chimeras.. i often use one or two. i usually only take up one elite spot for a singel tank ace so that leaves two slots for storm troopers in chimeras. throwing in 1 or 2 (5 to7man per) squads of kasrkins with 2 plasma guns per squad has proven a good option for me. if the table is large i may drive the chimera(s) thier full movement one turn and deploy the storm troopers somewhere to take advantage of targets. or deploy storm troopers right away to help protect against deep striking meltas.
might take a third chimera with armoured fist squad to do the same job as storm troopers but with differnt weapons. chimeras are a good way of getting more units on the table. the strength of the multilaser and the heavy bolter shots make it a decent anti-troop support. of course do what you can to keep only your front armour in line of fire from enemy if you can. and moving it almost all the time is good since it's weapons can still fire.
basilisks.. had a lot of good times with these. CHEAP points for armoured. keep em hidden or well out of range. if the enemy gets hell bent on taking out the earthshakers that can be a goodthing for you! this means less attention to other units that cost much more! i made a list for smaller tables which i see more and more of these days. and i included no basilisks but if the table is not too small and i think they basilisk will survive half the game i might take one or two of them. open topped sometimes seems worse than it is. until the template hits...
griffon mortar... i don't own one but i've seen one in action and it's a good choice on a small table from what i observed. great for hitting troops and sentinels :-P. it's open topped of course...
salamander.. yet another vehicle based on chimera hull. only FAST vehicle the guard have
cheap, open topped, autocannon, probably would give it a pinlte weapon. don't own one, might get one, would be kinda easy custom and not top priority for me to build one.
important thing i do since i have a bunch of differnt leman russ hulls is not gluing the turret or engine cover. this way any of my hulls can be a demolisher. i just take the demolisher engine cover(which is the only hull difference between demolisher and regular russ) and demolisher turret and stick em on any hull i want to. same with exterminator, custom battle cannons, battle cannons and conqueror(don't have one though)
also.. rough terrain mod/mine plow/dozer blade. i have yet to use one. but some of my hull have the mounts glued on. this way if i want to use the dozer blader i have painted, i can jsut slip em on. the stay on pretty well without glue.
pintle mounted weapons. ok.. assemble the pintle weapon on it's own. the actual pinlte piece it gets attatched to i always glue to the turret. you'll notice that if you assemble the heavy stubber and then twist it on you can take it on and off to play as what you see is what you get! same can be done with storm bolter but you gotta cut a notch into it just right.
i don't like track guards much and have them on a few tanks but they represent the side skirt doctrine.
since this is such a costly hobby. the basic kits directly from GW are best options for the money. STANDARD LEMAN RUSS KITS ARE GREAT! exterminator can be made quickly with two spare auto cannons from heavy weapon sprue. if you don't have two extra autocannons maybe a friend does and will give em to you for something very small or if like my pals for free since we always give eachother spare bits we need if the person giving isn't going to use em. want hull mounted heavy bolter? heavy weapons sprue again. or look for pal with extra heavy bolter or save em up from tanks you didn't put sponsons on. i went with the standard leman russ heavy bolter to keep it standard in my army.
want a vanquisher? might be better to just use antitank round doctrine. or you could save the big fuel drums from the vehicle accessory sprues that come with the tanks. i used three. i chopped the battle cannon up and filled the center. makes for a cool looking collared cannon.
there's also the collecting of different sized felt markers or oversized pens to make vanquisher, conqueror maybe even tank hunter cannons if yer good at customs. you could make a cool looking griffon out of a bassilisk kit if yer good at customs.
if you'd rather not risk customizing it's not too hard to make a good army list with GW retail kits.
all my opinions though. my armoured company lists are not invincible.
Last edited by NTFH; January 15th, 2006 at 11:24.
Armoured Company is great fun, I'm basing mine off the Narmenians from the Gaunt's Ghosts (General Grizmund's lot from Necropolis). Rather than tell you what is good, first I'll tell you what is generally NOT worth it (competitively - for fluff purposes anything is good).
Vanquisher - give a Leman Russ anti-tank rounds it does the exact same job but cheaper. Ok it has a shorter range (still 72"!) but when were you going to use 96" anyway - to fire at his off table reserves?
Destroyer tank hunter - same reason really. An anti-tank rounds Russ is better and cheaper. Also suffers from BS, and uses the small template. Find the associated thread here on the subject.
Salamander - Open-topped and AV10 from the side - nuff said.
Griffon - realistically why would you make do with AP4 in an Armoured Company list?
So now we are out of the filler, anything is good. Good things are Sentinels with lascannons as the enemy can't ignore them but knows he should be shooting at your tanks, good old indirect fire basilisks, demolishers and of course the good old Leman Russ.
I myself like to take as many Leman Russes as possible, my AC list is basically 10 bare-bones Russes. I like to take Plasma Cannons on all my BS4 vehicles though to give me a nice AP4 surprise for any terminators.
Here's a couple of old pics of my Narmenians from when they were still under construction:
I'm very interested in your barrel modifications NTFH, how did you model them?
Last edited by Addoran; January 15th, 2006 at 13:33.
well i made two "vanquisher cannons" they're strictly custom so i use them to depict a Tank Ace or HQ tank so my oponent and I are clear on which tanks have improved BS and/or if i use antitank rounds.
-the first one i tried i used a bic highlighter and tamiya epoxy putty(in place of "green stuff")
i cut the actual cannon just after the forward recoil mechanism and then cut the appropriate length off the marker/highlighter. used putty to connect the hihglighter between the rear of the cannon and the muzzle.
used an idea i saw a few months back. large fuel drums/barrels from the vehicle accessory sprues. i made sure not to use them all as extra kit on my vehicles. three looks to be ideal.
i cut the cannon shortly after the space required to but the mantle on(little armoured shield) then i assembled three fuel drums and shaved off the little leg/support things on the bottoms. shaved the top ends of the drum to get rid of the fuel cap and make them fit end to end in a flush manner. glued em all together with the buckles facing up and all in the same direction. next, i took the rest of the cannon and cut very close to the muzzle and attatched to the end of the three fuel drums. things went well and i didn't use any putty.
-custom chimera turret.
just like the one on the GW site. i actually ordered the predator turret sprue for this one because i wanted to do the turret mod so bad. i did things slightly different and added the older style hunter-killer missile pod to the side of the turret without the back of the pod or a missile so i can say it's not loaded/been expended before the game so i don't pay points for it or use it. thought it mit look a bit more like a bradley fighting vehicle.
took two spare autocannons from heavy weapon sprues used to make missile launchers and lascannons for my massive infantry army. next i grabbed the extra little angled armour plate that goes with the chimera hull to make a basilisk and cut it jsut the way i wanted. got some putty and away i went. i cut down the length of the autocannons from the rear and placed them side by side. i then shaved side of each outocannon that touched the other. this way they are parallel and close together. of course it might look better if there's a bit of space between the muzzles. i used putty to join the autocannons (upside down compared to infantry set-up) to the piece of armoured plate in a fashion that looks like the burlap-ish material used on some hull mounted weapons. then cut the appropriate angle into the spare battle cannon that is left over from the demolisher kit so my exterminator cannon can move up and down. glued it and it's done.
Myself for my Tank Aces with AT rounds I just ordered the Demolisher 'turret plates' and glued them to the side of my Aces to represent advanced stabilisation. I green stuffed extra rifling grooves on my barrel and glued the flamer tanks from the IG Cadians box onto the back of the turret to represent...something (heh it looks good, and as long as it makes my tank aces different) - see pic of my command tank for details.
However reading Necropolis again, I noticed that Grizmund's tank "The Grace of the Throne" apparently is a long chassis Russ variant with a 110cm main weapon. I'm not sure I can be bothered to try and make the chassis longer, but I might have to change the gun in the turret. Looks like I'll have to make it wider somehow.
Last edited by Addoran; January 15th, 2006 at 13:32.