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I have just returned from local tournament, and I strongly think about exchanging one squad of veteran CCW+melta+fist marines for strong librarian (Veil,Might,Jump,Plasma pistol,Familiar,halo) The cost is about same, he is much faster, could be hidden even when there is not enough terrain in the table and he is killing machine in CC
I put three full squads of marines (JP+Chaplain, 2xinfiltrating veterans against two squads of 10 lasplas + strong Librarian) I lost everything except one veteran sgt and one ccw veteran eventually, but he stopped my main killing force with his Librarian and few shooty marines for five turns. I have lost objectives and game because other units terrible rolls but that librarian make me thnk about power of full unit vs. power of one character...
What you think about it? Is librarian really better than squad of ten veteran marines?
vet marines? heck ya!
assault marines? no!
btw you can't really compare the two bc vets are much more shooty than assault IMO unless i am misinformed... an additional assaulty HQ shouldn't come before an assault squad, however.
better replacement for Vets- Scouts. That's right. Scouts. much more versatile weaponry, etc, etc.
If it's not funny, I will remove it. Stand Warned.
last time i used my JP librarian with veil of time he went throught a 5 man chaos bike squad and a 5 man nurgle terminator squad while only takig two wounds!
2000pts Orks 4-2-1
Problem with a Librarian, even a particularly well equipped one, is that he loses to a ten man marine squad with a Power Fist armed sargent pretty much every time. He just can't kill every guy before that power fist smushes him.
My advice, take a ten man assault squad with a power fist sargeant. 265 points (including two plasma pistols) and it is pretty much the best close combat available to space marines.
He does get pretty cut down by a hidden fist, but you can solve that by giving him an adamantine mantle. Thats what I did And If hes only losing 1 wound a turn he can survive three rounds and decimate alot of enemy troops.
"They shall all taste OBLIVION!,.....which tastes like Red Bull, which is disgusting."
OR use veil of time and re-roll the Iron Halo
Indeed, if its his turn and he has a 4++ re-rollable save then the PF becomes less deadly. Not harmless, but less deadly. A Librarian with a AM and a Combat shield is probably better though(once he's in CC).
Nevermore Chapter: 6200 pts; 97/49/11; Longest Streak: 9 Wins/4 Losses; Nearing Completion
I would think a Librarian on a bike with Veil, Artificer Armour, CS and Familiar would be something to look at instead if yer thinking about replacing a squad with a tooled up ind char. Consider this: this setup would be 180pts while yours comes to 210pts (if my math is wrong, sorry, kinda late:blush: ) Not a big difference of course but it could mean two extra marines or term honours and wargear on one of your sergeants if you don't have it already. More importantly it gives you much more mobility and survivability than an JP with the turboboost. Plus, you get a better shooting opportunity. IMHO, I'm not a big fan of might. My dice hate me as it is with regular rolls, even more for random bonuses.Originally Posted by razz
Any thoughts on this? I'm actually gonna use a Lib set up this way for my Blood Ravens.
Last edited by Col. Angus; January 23rd, 2006 at 06:21.
I think a the Librarian you described razz is better than the veteran squad,so id say go for it if you want to.Yeah Librarians on bikes can be extremly deadly if used and configured right.The best use of Librarians on a bike is when you go up against a low leadership army like tau,then you give him Fear of the Darkness and give him artificer armour.The you just turbo boost him all over the place making things run,and then eventually run off the table,such a funny and really cruel tactic :lol:Originally Posted by Col.Angus
A single librarian is a fairly bad choice. Since, veil of time stops working in the opponents turn, a fast unit like a bike squad or a couple of LST could easily come up and assasinate him.
And other armies would be far better against him, like hords, or shooty armies. Shooty armies,will simply blast him with fast moving units combined with great firepower. Where hords will gladly accept a charge from a librarian.
30 orcs will turn your librarain into a trophy on a banner pole in no time.