The Passion and the Sweep - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    The Passion and the Sweep

    Sometimes I seethe over how GW gimped "The Passion" with how they worded the itallics on p.43 of the rulebook.

    It almost seems like it was written just for the sake of stripping the ability from the sisters.

    - Orks get the ability to "roll" for the +2 init for free.
    - Marines with Furius charge are already getting +1 ot Str and +1 to Init on the hit.
    - But Sisters have to piss away a whole faith point for their Initiative boost, AND they have to roll for it, AND they don't get to use it for the sweep.

    In effect, p.43 ruined that act.
    OK. Fine, there's 4 others that we can use, but let's just focus upon the Passion for now. THere is nothing written into that act that tells us that its effect stop at any point during the assault phase. So it's like p.43 took a crap on that act, reducing it to something that some other armies get for free.

    But p.43 buried most of its value.

    I lament.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member shango's Avatar
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    Page 43 must be purified by flame!

    Burn the heretic!!

  4. #3
    Son of LO Plague_00's Avatar
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    but it's not an inate ability like furious charge or the ork thing, it's pretty much a minor psy power and as far as they go it is a pretty good one. also keep in mind marines pay for furious charge so a basic guy is 15-17 points however a siter is only 11 and gets acsees to allthose powers for free.
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    LO Zealot Heiromyo's Avatar
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    hmmmm I don't really see the problem in paying a faithpoint to get more Ini. It's a fair point that Orks and Marines get the ablility as well for less but orks are a rather combat like army and you would expect something of the sort plus Marines are just "broken" superhumans (Marine loather here ). Sisters on the other hand are just regular human girls slapped with power armour (fair anough they had excessive training etc yada yada but in the end they are just Gaurd that can shoot without missing by half a mile). It seems fair to me that a faith point is used to gain some more Ini.
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  6. #5
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    agreed, battle sisters are simply humans clad in power armour and are trained marksmen and are therefore equipped with a better weapon then there flak armoured compadres.
    2000pts Orks 4-2-1

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    Agreed. If you think about it, the basic sister is one of the best buys for an infantry unit out there. Power armor, BS4, bolter, and faith points for flexibility. True, their lower str/tough are major weaknesses (esp the toughness) but it's still a great deal.

    And btw, faith points are not psyik powers.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    Not picking on you Laplace, but I started this thread with the intention of whining, and by God, I'm going follow through with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laplace
    And btw, faith points are not psyik powers.
    I don't think he was trying to say they were.

    basic sister is one of the best buys for an infantry unit
    I'd say Sisters are in the middle, really.
    I think we're fooled by what a horrible deal the Stormtrooper and Guradsman is. But a Marine, a Marine Scout, and a Necron are all better, point-for-point. The vet upgrade also kills the deal. When you average the VSS into a squad of 10, the price jumps to 12.4 per model, while all she really is doing is contributing faith at a price of approx 10 points per faith point. (I pro-rate it as costing 10, all things considered).

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Zinfandel
    Not picking on you Laplace, but I started this thread with the intention of whining, and by God, I'm going follow through with it.
    Admit it, you are picking on me, but that's ok.:yes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Zinfandel
    I'd say Sisters are in the middle, really.
    I think we're fooled by what a horrible deal the Stormtrooper and Guradsman is. But a Marine, a Marine Scout, and a Necron are all better, point-for-point. The vet upgrade also kills the deal. When you average the VSS into a squad of 10, the price jumps to 12.4 per model, while all she really is doing is contributing faith at a price of approx 10 points per faith point. (I pro-rate it as costing 10, all things considered).
    Point taken, but it is simplistic at looking at unit vs unit comparisons (my fault partly for implying this in the first place). You have to look at how the unit itself is designed and how it fits into an army.

    Take regular SM for example. They are tougher than sisters, but the extra strength does them little good unless they are in cc. Regular Sisters by default are not meant to be cc unless they have to be (and if they are they can get some decent bonuses). But in shooting, they are identical in terms of armor saves and BS. The big plus for SM is really the unit rules. A SM squad can be small and have a nice heavy weapon in there while the minimum number of sisters Troops is 10 and their heavys aren't that great.

    However, in a shooting match, assuming you can position the sisters in a way so that they can rapid fire into the marine squad (big assumption I know) one Divine Guidance seriously tips the balance into the sister's favor. Cheap sisters can very easily pay for themselves.

    Or take Necrons. Their big minus is that they have no transport option save the Monolith warping (or Veil). So for the most part they will be able to be shot at quite a bit while marching forward. If in a pure shooting match of sisters vs Necrons of equal points at max range I'd put my money on the sisters (given that they can burn faith points). Every death to Divine Guidance means no WBB for them (unless a rez orb is nearby).

    I'm not saying they are the best unit out there or even the best generalized unit (unlike a SM). I am saying is that given their cost and their faith points, they have a nice flexibility to handle the situation. Divine guidance, or burn 2 faith points in cc and you get +2 str and invuln saves (tell me that won't hurt). If you need to rally, make them fearless. And that is what makes them a good buy IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laplace
    Every death to Divine Guidance means no WBB for them (unless a rez orb is nearby).
    Sorry, your wrong. i used to play necrons and they would still get WBB. read the rule, it says cc weapons that ignore armour saves, not shooting weapons. So, unless you've got S8 bolters you wont be ignoring WBB on necrons.
    2000pts Orks 4-2-1

  11. #10
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Right, a battle sister costs 11 points, for that, you get a 3+ save, BS4, a bolter as a basic weapon, the ability to shrug of psychic powers. Look at what an inquisitorial storm trooper gets for 1 point less. It's obscene.

    Battle sisters are already among the most cost effective troops around. Faith abilities are not supposed to be their prime selling point, they're good enough that they don't need a special rule as their prime selling point. Faith abilities are an additional bonus which can help you out when times get rough.

    Does an ork have a 3+ save? Nope..

    Does a marine with furious charge cost 11 points basic? Nope..

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