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  1. #1
    Senior Member Heathen's Avatar
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    Help with a DH list - total n00b

    I'm starting off a DH list and I'm running into problems already. The main sticking point I'm having is that I'm not really sure how I want my force to work; the idea I first had was to make my ISTs and Inquisitor retinue shooty and have the assassins to tie up or possibly kill off some big hitting units in CC until my GKs can port in and start punching faces off, whether that'll work or not I don't know, especially since doing it that way (and loading up on the wargear and spells) means no vehicles of any description. My normal list looks a bit like this:

    HQ:
    BC + 3 Terminators

    Elite:
    Inq w/ combi-weapon + tele homer
    - Servitor w/ plasma cannon
    - Servitor w/ multimelta
    - Sage x2
    Eversor
    Death Cultists x2

    Troops:
    IST x10 inc. Veteran with tele homer, 1x plasma gun, 1 x melta
    IST x10 inc. Veteran with tele homer, 1x plasma gun, 1 x melta

    FA:
    Grey Knight Squad, 1 Justicar, 9 GKs

    How it normally works is that my assassins will kill some piffling small fry then die, my ISTs and Inq retinue will get cut to ribbons before they've had a chance to do anything worthwhile or even gotten into a half-decent position for me to use the tele homers, meaning I'm DSing the GKs and GKTs blind and normally scattering them out of assault range of my target yet conveniently in blowing up range of whatever heavy weapons the oppo has got. Basically the question I want to ask is what am I doing wrong, how can I stop doing it and is it worth me taking dreads, if only to draw some of the concentrated fire away from my squishy troops to allow them to do their jobs properly (bearing in mind that I can't afford to buy a Chimaera and the only transport vehicle I have is a Land Raider ^^)?


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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen
    I'm starting off a DH list and I'm running into problems already. The main sticking point I'm having is that I'm not really sure how I want my force to work; the idea I first had was to make my ISTs and Inquisitor retinue shooty and have the assassins to tie up or possibly kill off some big hitting units in CC until my GKs can port in and start punching faces off, whether that'll work or not I don't know, especially since doing it that way (and loading up on the wargear and spells) means no vehicles of any description. My normal list looks a bit like this:

    HQ:
    BC + 3 Terminators
    more termies. even maybe GM.
    Elite:
    Inq w/ combi-weapon + tele homer
    - Servitor w/ plasma cannon
    - Servitor w/ multimelta
    - Sage x2
    Eversor
    Death Cultists x2
    i would get termies for this too
    Troops:
    IST x10 inc. Veteran with tele homer, 1x plasma gun, 1 x melta
    IST x10 inc. Veteran with tele homer, 1x plasma gun, 1 x melta
    grey knights
    FA:
    Grey Knight Squad, 1 Justicar, 9 GKs
    good
    How it normally works is that my assassins will kill some piffling small fry then die, my ISTs and Inq retinue will get cut to ribbons before they've had a chance to do anything worthwhile or even gotten into a half-decent position for me to use the tele homers, meaning I'm DSing the GKs and GKTs blind and normally scattering them out of assault range of my target yet conveniently in blowing up range of whatever heavy weapons the oppo has got. Basically the question I want to ask is what am I doing wrong, how can I stop doing it and is it worth me taking dreads, if only to draw some of the concentrated fire away from my squishy troops to allow them to do their jobs properly (bearing in mind that I can't afford to buy a Chimaera and the only transport vehicle I have is a Land Raider ^^)?
    i love raiders they rock use it wisely.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Heathen's Avatar
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    The thing is I'm playing 1000 point games, I take a LR and I'm using 1/4 of my points on one unit that could die in a single shot. They are sweet though, I want to graduate up to bigger games soon so I can start using it properly, need to win a game first though ^^.

  5. #4
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    I definatly would not take a Landraider in 1000pt games.

    My 1000pt list is usually a BC + 4 Termies, small shooty PAGK with two Psycannons, 10 PAGKs w/no upgrades, TLLC/ML Dread, =][= w/Psycannon and an Eversor. I just don't like ISTs that much.

    If you don't like the =][= and Eversor you could add another AC/CCW Dread.
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  6. #5
    Son of LO mEGALOMANIAC's Avatar
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    Ah, stern, so your advice is to entirely drop the list and take pure GK? Not the most helpful thing I've seen.

    Anyways.
    I'm starting off a DH list and I'm running into problems already. The main sticking point I'm having is that I'm not really sure how I want my force to work;
    If you check out some other lists here, I'm sure you'll eventually find something to your liking. I also suggest the DH Tactica for ideas on list styles.
    the idea I first had was to make my ISTs and Inquisitor retinue shooty and have the assassins to tie up or possibly kill off some big hitting units in CC until my GKs can port in and start punching faces off,
    Be aware though that assassins aren't that great at tying stuff up, nor at taking the brunt of combat. They're best used to support other melee troops.
    especially since doing it that way (and loading up on the wargear and spells) means no vehicles of any description.
    Vehicles aren't essential - I'd only use them if you can get at least two or three of them, which is quite an investment already. As for loading up on extras, don't. Aside from weapons upgrades, most everything in the DH list functions fine without upgrades (especially the GK).
    HQ:
    BC + 3 Terminators
    Nothing wrong here.
    Elite:
    Inq w/ combi-weapon + tele homer
    - Servitor w/ plasma cannon
    - Servitor w/ multimelta
    - Sage x2
    Eversor
    Death Cultists x2
    Hmm. First point, I suggest never taking Death Cultists and GK Terminators in the same list - they fill similar roles, for similar costs and with (kinda) similar stats, except that GKT have better weapons and better saves. I'd drop them altogether!

    For the Inquisitor, I'd drop the combi-weapon (you'll only get one shot with it, which isn't really useful). A Plasma Cannon & a Multi-Melta serve VERY different roles on the field, so don't mix & match them. A good combo is a Plasma Cannon + 2 Heavy Bolters, or if you reaaally need anti-armor (and I don't think you do), 2-3 Multi-meltas. If you go with the PC/Heavy Bolters loadout, a psycannon on the Inquisitor could be handy. The Teleport Homer isn't a good idea, as this unit shouldn't be anywhere NEAR the front lines (36" weapons...). Two sages is good, and I'd add a single Mystic if you can afford it so that they can shoot at Deepstriking/Summoned units.
    Troops:
    IST x10 inc. Veteran with tele homer, 1x plasma gun, 1 x melta
    IST x10 inc. Veteran with tele homer, 1x plasma gun, 1 x melta
    Don't mix and match weapons in IST squads, it reduces their effectiveness. If you have 2x Plasma in one squad, they can hang further back and concentrate on heavy infantry, while the 2x Melta unit can get close and go after armor.
    FA:
    Grey Knight Squad, 1 Justicar, 9 GKs
    This is golden.

    Hmm. A Dread is handy, yes, but if its the only vehicle on the table it won't last more than a turn or two - hold off until you can get two of them, or a Dread and a couple of cheap transports for the IST.

    You may not want to Deepstrike the FAGK, actually. Keep them as FA choices, as you're allowed to either DS them OR deploy them as normal (except they're deployed last, which is a great advantage). Try having them walk for a few games - you're playing small enough games that the table shouldn't be too huge (4'x4' or maybe less), and their stormbolters would help you with firepower. Keep the IST out of assault if possible (I'm sure you know this). The Inquisitor unit should NEVER be in combat, and never NEAR combat - there's a reason they have 36" weapons.

    Hope that helps!

  7. #6
    Senior Member Heathen's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice, all
    I'm glad nobody's said "drop the Eversor" yet; he's the coolest model I have, the best one I've painted so far and in practical terms he's a CC beast. I do actually have 2 dreads knocking about, taking the advice I've had so far to heart here's the new list and a few ideas what I'm going to do with them.

    HQ:
    BC +3 GKT

    Elite:
    Inq. w/ Meltagun
    2x Servitors w/ Multimeltas
    2x Sages
    1x Mystic
    1x Acolyte
    Eversor Assassin

    Troops:
    10x ISTs w/ 2x Plasma Gun
    10x ISTs w/ 2x Grenade Launcher

    FA:
    GK Squad, 9x GK + 1 Justicar w/ tele homer

    Heavy:
    Dread w/ CCW and Assault Cannon
    Dread w/ ML and TLLC

    The anti-armour is now provided solely by the Inq retinue and dread number 2, with the ISTs carrying weapons to deal with heavy infantry. The FAGK are walking but the HQ is going to deep strike, hence the tele homer on the Justicar. Dread number one is meant to be a bit of a damage sponge for the FAGK as they're advancing, as far as I'm aware a full squad of GKs with power weapons hits far harder than a dread in CC, plus the GKs can bring in the BC + GKT, so if the dread goes it's okay (unless he goes early in which case I'm sunk ^^). The Eversor's role as a sacrificial lamb has been changed to sneaking up alongside the GKs and using his long charge to help them kill whatever they're assaulting. The Inq retinue has an Acolyte for the extra wound, since they're a big part of the anti-armour I figure they're going to be a lot closer to what's going on in the battle, so they're going to take a few shots. I was toying with the idea of giving the Inq some power armour in this case but it hardly seems worth it since his retinue is quite big so there's a few wounds to spread around. I opted for the meltas largely due to the fact that I haven't got 2 heavy bolters spare ^^.

    A couple more q's about this list; is it a good idea to give one or two psycannons to the GK if they're walking? I'd rather not since that's 2 less power weapons in a squad that I'm using to assault, but if they're going to be exposed then it seems like a good idea to me to at least give them some special weapons. Also, since my GKTs can't move or assault on the same turn they DS, I'm still unsure whether to use the tele homer on the Justicar or just DS normally. If I use the tele homer to DS the termies they'll basically be sitting around helpless for a full turn either in or close to the enemy's lines. Still chewing that one over, maybe give him the tele homer at first and see how it works out.

  8. #7
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    It's a much better list.

    As for anti-armor, don't forget that the CCW+AC dread can punch armor too, even if that isn't your planned role for him. Not just his CCW, but the AC (it has Rending now).

    Yes, your GKT will tend to do more damage than a single Dread in CC. The advantages of a Dread in CC, though, are S10 and it counts as 10 models for purposes of outnumbering.

    I would refrain from giving psycannons to PAGK that you plan to move. Even though they can fire when moving, their range drops to less than a stormbolter's range. They are best sitting still and being used from a distance (30"-36"), making use of Shrouding as well. You might want to still consider DSing the FAGK to avoid taking fire while walking across the board.

    As far as TP homers... they are best used in conjunction with a unit in a vehicle. Grab a rhino/chimera for one (or both) of the IST squads (or possibly =I=). Drive them forward first turn (popping smoke) and jump out. Voila, tp homer near the front lines. If you maneuver well, you might even get a second turn of movement in the vehicle, etc. To maximize the survivability fo DSing troops, you need multiple threats nearby, so that your opponent either splits fire, or if he concentrates on just one unit you have another that will hurt him badly.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Heathen's Avatar
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    I've come to a final decision about my list, it's in the Army Lists section if anyone wants to have a gander and tell me what they think. Thanks again for all the advice, it was really helpful in coming up with the final list. I've also decided to DS the GKs rather than just walking them, had a little kick-about versus a vanilla SM force earlier and did pretty well with the list, although this was largely due to a misunderstanding of the rules regarding rapid fire weapons, some godawful deployment and a horrifically lucky orbital strike hit that all but wiped out 2 of his tactical squads. He had a Land Raider that I found quite difficult to shift, although this was largely due to some bad rolls and my sticking the Inq retinue in a really bad position, so all in all I reckon it's solid enough. Let me know what you think

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