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I've been reading the rules and became confused with somethings. I was hoping to get an experienced opinion on these things.
1. Can a regular gk in power arm. carry a teleport homer for my termies to come to, or can only things in terminator armour carry one? I have read about a few people giving thier justicars one, then dropping thier Captain when they get near enough. I think they cant, because of the * next to the homer on the wargear.
2. Are inceneratiors worth it on the power armours, or should I take psycannons, or neither and get another knight?
3. Do the terminators get the nice 'true grit' ability, or is that limited to their little buddies?(I really want to pump out at least 3 power sword cc hits :yes: )
4. What type of psychic ability is the best overall for general everything battle? Mostly i expect to see BA&DA marines, rail-crazy tau, tryanids, and necrons. Hammerhand is nice, except that the tyranids are full of the genestealers, and i've tested myself against the tens of times(5 reg GK always get slaughtered by at least 10 gene before they can respond).
5. If I put holocaust on my independant hq Bcaptain, then team him up with my elite termies, would that be an effective way to finish off an opponet for cheaper?
6. This may seem wrong, but could it be sensible to throw in 1 or 2 squads of sisters of battle (them as allies, using thier codes for this support) for thier supporting fire and an AOF to get my knights into battle without taking trouble. 20-40 bolter shots is nice support, and maby i could put a homer on the leader to get my termies even closer with this suicide squad. They are cheap, but can shoot well and block even better.
7. How much wood would a wood chuck chuck, if a wood chuck could chuck wood?(sorry, but I'm droning on and on. Don't answer this!)
1) He most certainlyl can, he can take anything out of the wargear section,. The restriction is on weaponry, so he has to keep his storm bolter + NFW, which is not bad at all.
2)I think Neither are worth it. Incinerators turn a CC warrior into normal marines, except that he costs 20 points more--If you have to foot slog him you are losing your storm bolter shots, and if you are teleporting him you are going to get one template down because you will want to lose him first so unless he is killing a ton of points with the flamer it isn't worth it. The Psycannon is also too limiting too the squad, it takes away CC prowess, and forces you to either not shoot with everyone (25-36 inches) or takes away storm bolter shots (24-18 inches) one you are within 18 I think the 2 str 6 attacks (twice per turn) and two strength 4 attacks are better then 3 strength 6 attacks, and 1 one strength 4 attack (twice per turn) and it costs you points.
--if you want to bring psycannons put them on independent Inquisitors and let them shoot from the cover of being an independant Character...it cost the same a GK with a psycannon but cannot be targeted, shoots with the exact same effectiveness, and doesn't affect the prowess of one of your CC units.
3)No, says it in the Codex, and the FAQ.
4)Psychic powers are not very good except agianst chaos.(and hamerhand for vehicles)
5)If your GK termies are fighting things that Holocost is effective against you should rethink your battle plan.
6)seems sensible enough, however 1 GKs shoot just as well as 2 sisters of battle, is much more effective in assault, and only cost 3 points more. (the extra wound form the sisters are nice, but the extra toughness, the ability to move and shoot, and the shrouding can make up those points easily.)
He's pretty much got it all right.
I rarely use Incinerators unless I plan on going up against things that burn really well (Guard... Tau...) DON'T take them Vs. 'nids or marines and equivalents. 'Nids charge far too fast to use flamers, and MEQ's aren't really going to be too badly hurt by it anyhow. In either case, I'd only take them on teleporting FA squads and such - they're less than useless for footsloggers.
Psycannons are a bit nicer, as those long ranged S6 shots can be quite handy. NFW/SB is usually better, though - unless you're talking Termies. A GK Termie with a Psycannon is scary no matter how you look at it - I don't field a squad without one.
As for extra fire support, a shooty Inquisitor and retinue is probably your best option, and IST's are often your best source of extra wounds and mobile melta/plasma firepower. And of course, if you're after cheap shields, nothing tops inducted Guardsmen.
-I keep my PAGK squads pure, with no special weapons as I feel they are incredibly effective already, and adding on an incinerator should almost deduct points, you not going to get the same number of kills when compared with a normal GK against the same enemy, the Storm Bolters helps in range while the NFW really helps in CC. I'm kinda split on Psycannons, I can see where there useful, but they still cost alot of points, I think 2 standard GKs are better than 1 with Psycannon in the long run.
-Throwing a squad or 2 of sisters in rhinos could be one way to help keep you GKs alive a bit longer. The enemy has to either split thier fire or choose the greater evil, I know I would try to at least Pop the Rhinos as SoBs are medium range shooters, once there slowed the GKs become more of a threat as they are slightly longer range but also very nasty in CC. But they can't take Teleport Homers (No reason to in the WH codex) but with say 2 flamers and a combi flamer on the VSS you could have a very nasty squad up close. Or with 2 Meltaguns they are a therat to tanks, hopefully making the enemy using some of his AP3 weaponry to take out the SoBs before they get to the Tanks.
-As far as SoBs getting outshot by GKs, I don't so much agree, a 10 strong squad gets the same number of shots under 12" as A GK squad for less points (Rhino Included) and you aren't going to stand around for a turn to set up for 24" and get shot at.
-As Far as GKTs coming in using Teleport Homers, again I don't agree, for a few reasons.
1] You stand a better chance of getting thier points back by using thier shooting to full effect and walking them.
2] If your unlucky in Deep Striking you could end up chasing a enemy squad all game because they are outside of the 6" charge zone.
3] You make the enemy choose again, between shooting the GKTs, which are deadly in CC, but can only assault 1 unit at a time, or teh PAGKs, which while less deadly in CC, aren't push overs.
-Note on GK HQs, don't throw them in with the squad, rather have have him very near the squad, but not joined, seeing as he is treated as a seperate unit in assault anyways, this keeps him safe from shooting as long as he is behind a few models at least. he can still shoot at the same targets anyways as well and all GK are fearless, so there isn't really any reason to put him in the squad anyways.
I think I coverd everyting and more. Course this is based on my unique playing style.
Thanks everybody. Very helpful, and I was really bugged by those few questions.
A couple more notes:
I find Incinerators really useful for GK squads in a Land Raider; the Assault Ramp lets them move 12", disembark, fire a ton of assault weapons (Incinerators included, tons of hits!) and still charge. Still, best against Tau, IG, Eldar and other lightly-armored armies.
Also, note that the Teleport Homer isn't in the Witch Hunters Armoury; since they can only get equipment from there, you can't put a teleport homer on Sisters.
"HQ, my LOS is blocked by a soda bottle. I'm moving to unmask my guns."
"Negative! The soda bottle is the Carnifex!"
"Dang proxy models!"
-Cmdr. Kren, www.tsoalr.com
1. Grey Knight Justicars can take teleport homers. The star means that models in termi armor can only take those items. However, models out of termi armor may also take those items.
2. IMO, incinerators are never worth iton a power armored grey knight. Psycannons however, are very good if you need to kill something dangerous like a genestealer brood and would like the ap on the psycannnon. They are also worthwhile of course against any kind of chaos that uses demons(other than khorne) because they ignore invul saves.
3. Terminators do not recieve true grit, however, they recieve +1 attacvk on the charge unlike grey knights in power armor.
4. I don't really find any psychic power to be useful at all against the armies you mentioned.
5.I don't really know what you mean.
6.Allies are really a matter of decision. If you enjoy sisters of battle, go for it. I generally run a pure DH force, but if I used allies/inducted troops, it would be Imperial Guard.
7. 58 grams before he choked to death
Et imperator Invocato Diabolus Daemonica Exorcist!
I find that incinerators are usualy worth it. You lose a small amount of firepower and a small amount of cc ability but if your planning an 'against all comers' force then you should really consider them as they are great against horde armies and lightly armoured armies (orks, IG, eldar even nids if you have time to use it).
Also, GK in power armour do get an extra attack if they charge. There is no reason they wouldn't unless they shot in the shooting phase. They simply lose 'true grit' when they charge.
If you are using allies then i must say that i prefer the SoB as they are power armoured and have better weaponry then the IG. The only place that IG really own is with their heavy support choices and you cant use them as allies anyway. (If inducted troops you can field a leman russ though).
What i do is field a 'technically' space marine army list using 2 troop choices and a single hq from the space marines list and max out the allowed troop, fast attack, elite etc with grey knight stuff. but that's just me.
DONT GO TO WAR WITHOUT PSYCANNON TERMINATORS!! They are simply to cool.
1) Regular GKs can't, but Justicars can so it'd be perfectly feasible to have a TPHomer in a Grey Knights squad.
2) I'm with MikeTehFox on this one; my GKs work fine footslogging or DSing without special weapons; my view on the special weaps is that you're adding points to a model to reduce it's effectiveness. A Psycannon in a footslogging group of GK is about as far as I'd go, I'd never use an Incinerator.
3) No, only GKs in power armour; for this reason you shouldn't feel bad giving your GKTs a special weapon, but again I'd steer clear of the incinerators. If you want to give them a bit more punch on the turn they land then psycannons are far more effective.
4) Don't really like the psyker abilities myself, unless there's likely to be a daemon in the opponent's forces then I can't see how they'd be useful.
5) Never used them so I don't know ;s
6) I've never really used SoB so I don't know. I'd sooner take the Grey Knight myself, they're one of the few units in the game where you can actually say you're getting what you pay for, although again I've never used SoBs so I can't comment beyond having seen their stats.
edit: 7) 42
I disagree.Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
The range on an incinerator is nothing compared to a storm bolter, and in the turns you're marching around -- even after you deep strike, shoot, and then have to shoot/move/assault next turn (if by then you're still w/in assaulting range!) -- you can kill as many or, usually, many more models with the usual stormbolter than with an incinerator. Against horde armies, like tyranids where the argument in favor of incinerators is greater, you still have to make sure you get the charge -- a difficult prospect in the case of 'nids -- otherwise the odds of getting an effective use of the incinerators is unlikely.
Incinerators are only useful if you're taking a unit of GKs in a LRC and have the luxury of driving right up to where they're needed, the LRC does it's blast-o-rama thing, the GKs pop out, incinerate (and shoot) everything in sight, and then assault right then and there. The key is that you are in precise control of that incinerator template.
And you can't seriously think that a GK with a STR 6 NFW and True Grit (an extra CC attack) is only "a small amount of cc ability" better than an incinerator-toting GK who has one less attack, and that only at STR 4, and which costs more to boot!While what you're talking about makes the end result -- the number of dice you roll -- the same as what the rules describe, this isn't at all what "actually" happens according to those rules. The GK True Grit special rule is very clear.Originally Posted by Captain.SnowballOn this we agree. :yes:Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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