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    Black Templar's Initiates

    I was looking through the forum and noticed that alot of people were using a whole squad of Initiates with BP + CCWs. I was wondering how effective is this. I was planning on using 2 squads of initiates with bolters for a 500 pt. army list but i wondering if the BP + CCW combo would be more effective and why?


    (Last night I played a 500 pt. army Deathwing army and only lost 8 out of 25 using the Bolter combo so i'm leaning towards the bolter squads but i'm still wondering why so many people use the BP + CCW combo)


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    Ill explain by pointing initiates as scouts:

    CCB Scout Squads with pf are a cheap infiltrate, move through cover 10 wounds power fist, excellent to bring a teleport homer into battle and/or put a target enemy squad within ccb for the whole battle (hopefully ) It's not it's destructiveness but it's ability to remove a threat. I personally love scouts and use 2 CCB scout squads (10 men) and 4 bolter/missile scout squads (6 men) in my army and they work too well with my terminators

    Bolter Scout Squads on the other hand are a moderate fire base.

    But I think many people use them as a cheap troop choice, to save up points for other better expensive things.

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    Instead of having the neophytes tie up enemies, do you think 2 squads of 10 initiates (9 bolters + 1 plasma cannon/gun or multi-melta) for the base army than adding fast attack initiates + a chaplain with terminator honors and jumppack (Not sure of the other specifics on this guy.) After that i would start adding things like a dreadnought, Emperors Champion, ect. Would this work out well? And if not, why?

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    2 squads of 10 initiates (9 bolters + 1 plasma cannon/gun or multi-melta)
    BT are are mobile assaulting army. These squads won't work too well. If you want fire support then use Dreadnaughts, Speeders, Predators or terminators. In a BT army crusader squads are there to advance, assault and take objectives. If you tie up all your infantry in static fire support then by turn 4-5 you will find that you don't have the numbers where you need them.

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    I know BT's are more assaulty than shooty, but in a 500 pt. list how would you configure the two crusader squads than. And if there going to be assaulty, should I take a dreadnought before i take the assault squad?

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    Quote Originally Posted by N1nj4
    I know BT's are more assaulty than shooty, but in a 500 pt. list how would you configure the two crusader squads than. And if there going to be assaulty, should I take a dreadnought before i take the assault squad?
    My 2 cents...

    As a new BT player myself, I've only tried this tactic and it worked quite well so far. My 500 point list consists of 2 men crusader squads. One squad would be led by a chaplain (squad becomes fearless, automatically pass morale checks, add some cenobytes and your men will literally glide over the table, asssuming you don't take too much casualties. Upgrade this to a reclusiam command squad and the apothecary will really help with failed armour saves...). The other squad will be outfitted with BP+CCW with lead BP+PW and stuffed in a drop pod. It may seem wastefull but drop pods at 30 points armed with a stormbolter range 24 is no joke. Took out a necron heavy destroyer and warriors just by dropping this pod directly behind them. Just watch the scatter die... (i miss the old rule of drop podding on the enemy!).

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    why not 1 squad for assaulting with pwr fist, melta, and bolt pistols and ccw's/

    then have a support squad with bolters, plasma, and missile launcher
    2000pts Orks 4-2-1

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    I´m playing BT for over one year now and found out that you can better give your marines CCW&BP and one guy a meltagun or plasmagun for some close range firesupport.

    You will only get 2 shots when carring a bolter because the range of a rapid firing bolter is 12". The BP will give you the same two shots and the ability to assault that.

    And because the real strenght of BT lies in CC thus you want to assault.
    Don´t mess with the dicegod

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    Quote Originally Posted by N1nj4
    I was looking through the forum and noticed that alot of people were using a whole squad of Initiates with BP + CCWs. I was wondering how effective is this. I was planning on using 2 squads of initiates with bolters for a 500 pt. army list but i wondering if the BP + CCW combo would be more effective and why?


    (Last night I played a 500 pt. army Deathwing army and only lost 8 out of 25 using the Bolter combo so i'm leaning towards the bolter squads but i'm still wondering why so many people use the BP + CCW combo)

    I'm new to BT as well. My understanding, from reading, asking questions, and playing against a long time BT player, its for two reasons:

    1. Righteous Zeal forces you're troops to move forward if you pass a moral check after taking losses during your opponent's shooting phase. - This can be weakness turned into a strenght but it's iffy at best. Using them as fire support becomes trickey if they're constently moving forward and if you get someone who's crafty they'll drop some crappy little squd next to a toughter squad but make sure they're always just bit closer so you're troops are always moving toward the wrong enemy.

    2. BT are an assault army, if they make it all the way across the board to engage the enemy they'll really shine. If you give them all Bolters you're going to miss out on the extra attack. To truely maximize the advantages of a BT army you'll want to have lots of BPs/CCWs.

    But understand that this is just a general rule of thumb if you will. You're local games are different from my local games so my advise may not fit your situations....

    In my last 500pt game, against IG, I did something similar. I played two squads, a shooty and an assaulty. My shooters keep Zealing forward and by the time they made it there were only 2 left. My assaulters took some losses but were able to cleane house with the extra attacks.

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    Zealous Casualties...

    Here's my 2 cents on this problem. While not planning to write up a tactica on the spot, this is how I deal with my 500 pts - 1000 pts games so far.

    The problem with most armies is mobility. You really need to figure out how to get your guys to move across the table. Compound this with the need to shoot at things and mobility vs firepower ability becomes an issue.

    Solution. Drop Pods. At 30 points each, it's a good bargain. It comes with a stormbolter and you can drop it anywhere, so instead of having your valuable templars run and take casualties on the table, only to veer of course to square off against some crappy enemy squad designated to just tie up your squad for a turn or two, you can drop pod your shooty/assault squad next to a cheesy squad, mission objective and fiinsh them off. Here's the best part. If I'm not mistaking, since they're not moving they can either rapid fire or shoot at 24" with Bolters. At the next turn, you can advance with guns blazing from the hip. The 30 point pod is also wonderful for landing marines to capture table quarter. Put someguy in there with a teleport homer and you know what I mean...

    It's either that or you take a Rhino or LRC to ferry them across the table. Of course, we expect the Rhino to blow up at some point in the game, even with smoke launchers, but it's main purpose is to get them to a spot in a hurry. Although point wise it's expensive, the Rhino is a reasonably priced and easier to obtain off the shelf compared to the drop pod which can only be obtained exclusively from Forge World.

    I just wish that besides updating Tau Empire, they could have at least spent some time doing the model for an official GDW drop pod instead...

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