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After a 10 year break, me and my friends decided to start playing WH again.
Instead of continuing my old (and pretty crappy armies) I wanted to start fresh and quick decided IG is my thing. (Always wanted to build an IG army but could even remotly afford it. Now I can.)
I decided to start a pretty general army.. Lots of infantry, some tanks and a couple of sentinels would after what Ive read suit my idea of strategy pretty well.
But now I need help.. After reading all the guides how to build a IG army im actually more confused than I was before since they contradict eachother all the time.
Like with the Heavy Weapons.. Some say missile launchers, some say Autocannons and some say lascannons. Obviously im going to mix them, but whats the best mix?
I wasnt gonna start that heavy on armor, maybe 2 russes and 1 basilisk for my 1500p army, but is that enough? Are there any golden rules constructing a IG army?
And the most confusing of them all.. The HQ. Defensive support unit or offensive mega-unit? I really dont know what to do
Some help and genereal tips of forming a 1500 IG army would be much appreciated.
It's so easy to be confused with everyone having a different idea about how to accomplish the same thing. Especially when you consider how diverse the Guard is and the dizzying choices there are.
I started my 1,850 pt Guard army with a Leman Rus and a Demolisher, two Chimera's and 4-5 Sentinels (always wanted a Hellhound but, well read below). It didn't take long before I added in another Leman, a Basilisk for "changing it up once in a while" and another Chimera. The important thing always seems to be, as long as you pay attention to your troops, number and balance, the vehicles can be effective units. Anytime you think the tanks will do it for you by themselves, they won't. Sometimes it depends on the army, but more often it depends on the player you can have wild swings with the sucess of a lot of armor. Just don't forget the troops.
No matter how you wind up organizing your army, in my opinion, the troops are what make a Guard army work. They are what other commanders dread. I like having a mix of static and mobile units.
I put Autocannons and Grenade Launchers in one of my platoons (two to two and a half squads) and Lascannons and a mix of Melta/Plasma and Flamers in the other (another two to two and a half squads. Keep in mind though this evolved over a lot of battles and still is evolving. The Heavy Weapon squads can do O.K. but make for easy to kill targets. Never, ever try to make a unit a close combat unit (Rough Riders are good for one, and only one counter-attack per game). In my opinion, spending points on your commanders is another area that is best skipped. The real difference in my army has been Veterans. The use of Drop Troops Doctrine and Hardened Veterans has made a big difference. It really adds a lot of mobility. Helps to get in range for distractions or killing off enemy armor. I never cared what it seems the majority of players propose as regards to outfitting your units with special weapons, and I've always kept this mixture: a Meltagun, Flamer and Grenade Launcher, with terrific success! You know what the secret is though? The real strength is the 15 Lasgun shots!!! The funnest (both modeling and playing) development in my army has been the gradual repalcement of all of my armor for more troops. (I still use Chimera's in general.) Especially the addition of the Last Chancers and Demolition charges! Quickly, tanks always die sometime around turn three, four at the most, during this time they'll get off two to three shots. I use four, two man squads one with a demolition charge and the other with either a plasma gun or a melta, I have two of each, and I drop them right on top of the enemy. Remember, your strength is alway in your troops. While the bad guy is dying or at least trying to deal with these annoying units the reat of the army is blasting the crap out of him (that's where the Chimeras, fast, come in)! As a bonus, since you have to take Colonel Schaeffer you can get a BS 4 Lascannon/Heavy Bolter crew to hang with or a group of Snipers or my favorite, a few Plasma carring troops to use as a counter-charge unit or infiltrating/deepstriking strike force.:w00t: With Guard you ahve the luxury of Deepstriking anywhere you feel like and I constantly frustrate my opponents by placing those guys square in the middle of his army. If they die, "ah!", it's 50 or so points. For me, I land in a good spot easily 80% of the time, easily. (I can't deepstrike with any of the other armies because the troops cost too much!)
I've gone on way too long and there is still so much more to say! have fun with whatever you decide that's what it is all about anyway!
Sorry this turning into such a long post but as I try and answer you I find that there isn't really an easy or simple answer. It will be important for you to make all of these discoveries because that's how your going to learn how to effectively deploy the Guard to suit your tactics.
Without doubt a VERY useful post! Thanks alot.
As you say, the possibility to have a 100 lasguns in your army is a very good thing, and thats precisly my goal. I want lots of cheap troops with basic guns supported by a good balanced tank & HW force.
To me it seems you have bulit a versatile and sneakattack army. I think I would do a mistake if I started with more complicated tactics than I can handle. I was thinking I should start to do a very simple army, with take & hold as primary tactic. Maybe I wont win, but Ill sure learn.
Even with a basic army I do realize there are lots of "musts" I need to fulfill. If you pointed out the three most important things for any IG-army, what would that be?
The path on How I believe you should get your army:
2x Battleforces (get 3x if you can afford it)
This will provide you with 6- 9 heavy weapons teams.
But since these Cadian weapons teams comes with all weapons, you can do some minor conversion work and make use of this and produce over 24 or so weapons out of the team.
(I'd ask around the conversion section for help on converting these guns, i'd help if i had the time to write up about it)
Making all these weapons teams will provide you with the all around weapon selections to go up against any situation.
If you have an autocannon setup, i'd recommend one grenade launcher to the squad, as they nearly have the same role.
If you have a lascannon setup, I'd recommend maybe one plasmagun to the squad, as it too has nearly the same role.
(If you went this way then some special weapons blisters would need to be purchased)
This also provides you with 60 troops, and 3 vehicles, where you can never go wrong with.
But you are still missing some sort of HQ.
You should then purchase about:
2x Cadian Officer packs. Don't need to but the command squad, as its a heft price >.>.
Then basically you have a mini force here. IT all depends what else you want to add to match your taste.
3 points to an IG army:
(in this term, foot troops)
1.) Troops! This is your core army.
2.) Keep things cheap. We are not space marines. We don't need point sinks either.
3.) Mobility (You need some or you will find yourself in trouble when going against assaulty enemies)
Last edited by Tyrael-RM; March 5th, 2006 at 18:41.
Hehe. Ive bought 1 battleforce and I actually already converted the remaining heavys to other bases .
About mobility.. Does that mean chimeras or drop troops or something else? I just looked into droptroops and it felt pretty right adding that doctrine to my army. Im not that into putting all my guys into chimeras cuz as far as Ive understood, they break pretty easy. Doesnt that mean putting most your troops in chimeras is a pretty big risk?
Don't put most of your army in chimeras, just take armoured fist squads.
If you loaded all into chimeras, then you'd be going for the mechanized doctorine, which can be effective, and would require a little different planing in army composition.
Mobility, I'd say:
1-2 chimeras at most, keep @ cheap points. They may break easily, but if your saying full mech, you'd have to find someone who could actually pack that much to eliminate all the armour value.
Sentinels, mobile firing support.
drop trooping is not what i meant for mobility, but that would provide you with some tactical advantages dropping ,and getting to where you want.
If your playing an all troop army, maybe light infantry doctorine might suit you, as it allows oyu to infiltrate and get into the position you want to be in.
Last edited by Tyrael-RM; March 5th, 2006 at 19:09.
As Murekhair said, "Troops" is a big fat number ONE!
I've thought hard on a number "two" and this is it, heavy weapons in Platoons, I take just two squad platoons both for the Armored Fist opportunities but also for the firepower. With seven heavy weapons in two small platoons you can see how much firepower :w00t: you can get in a little over 400 points!
I think for "three" the must have is "no wargear". I know some of that stuff is cool but if you concentrate on building your force with as few frills as possible you'll be better off in the long run. Use leftover points or after some experience, something that sounds cool and only replaces something you are comfortable with.:yes: Here is a hint that was a close number three, it falls in here though since it is free. Close Order Drill the doctrine. Read it. Learn it. Live it. Realize that it will not make you an offensive weapon to be feared. Still, when the opportunity presents itself.... I freaked out a buddy of mine by assaluting his Gaunts once:rolleyes: Combination of audacity, timing and lucky dice actually paid dividends then and ever since. That Hive Fleet is just a tad more wary around the Wavre 34th! HoooAaah!!!
Mobility comes from combinations. Infiltrators, deepstrikers, Chimeras and good old fashioned footslogging. Don't stay static! You can always leave a portion of your force in position (preferably under cover by the way). Channel the bad guys by dangling bait, feigning weakness (I moan alot about how my poor troopers are going to get slaughtered) and making "dumb" wink, wink, nudge nudge moves. I love the Guard because no one thinks twice about you talking trash. Do that with Marines and they think you're a ****y p#%*, try it with Necrons and you're likely to be physically attacked! Anyway get the enemy to move where you want him and bring to bear every "flashlight" (lasgun) you have. Talk about a turn in initiative. Watch 20 guardsmen blast 5 terminators 40+ times it's great. Then when thay howl like a banshee and tell you what the second squad of drop pod Terminators are about to do to your reloading troopers hit him with the satchel charge! Just profess alot of "I'm sorrys" at htat point. You can smirk on the inside:shifty:
oh dear what an intresting question, and an open ended one too. Everyone has their ideas, my are pretty simple. Missles and plasma. My army is probally without a doubt one fo the most immobile little bastereds you'll ever meet. I sit my army down in a corner with some cover, and start picking my victims. My 1500 point go to list contains something like 10 missle launchers 10 plasma guns, 3 mortors, 2 lascannons, 100 lasguns, two plasma cannons, a demo cannon, a battle cannon, 3 hbs, and the almighty earthshaker. The closer you get the faster you die :yes: The first time I actually used this list I lost five hole guardsmen ( two died my my own hand ....) The nightmare for my oppenet begins at well 240 inches with a bassi shelling any nastie targets, at 72 inches the russ starts poping things like hammerheads, zerkers, what evers big mean , and stuiped, at 48 inches things really start moving, itanks start eat krak rounds, ranger/ pathfinder or anything thats trying to hide takes a mortor shelling, maybe frag rounds to big units of ork mobs, 36 inches the plasma canons and heavy bolters open up, and then at 24 inches anything that is still somehow alive starts eating las/ plasma fire. Nothing makes it past 12 inches.
Basicly what I'm trying to say is that there are really a ton of options, you can take the army of toy soldiers, a static army from hell, a tin can army with 12 sentinals, whatever the list goes on and on and on. I've always played by three or four rules with guard
1) Don't waste points on upgrades if it denies you more guns
2) more is always better
3) don't under estimate the power of a las gun
Oh there is no best mix, however there are weapons that are more effective than others, heavy bolters tend to win out over auto cannons, missle IMO over lascannons, it all really depends sooner or latter you'll find where you fit in
Rheagar fought nobly
Rheagar fought valiantly
Rheagar fought honorably
And Rheagar died.
woah greenbeard you actually take those things they call mortars? (i've never met anyone that has XD ) I guess they have their lobbing uses? What do you use them for? And have they actually redeem themselves?
Good stuff for sure! You guys certainly helped me get some important stuff clear. Ill come back later when I have more questions that needs answering (so cya tomorrow )