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  1. #1
    Junior Member Space Marine Mike's Avatar
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    Questions about Powerfists

    Two questions regarding powerfists.

    1. If my sergeant has 3 attacks, do I still have to use the powerfist's initiative of one on the other attacks that the powerfist is not being used on? It is my understanding that the reason the powerfist strikes last is because it is bulky and cumbersome and so (in my mind) should not affect attacks made with other weapons the sergeant may be carrying.

    2. According to an article I read here regarding "hidden powerfists" the author says that characters should never be given a powerfist because he can be targeted and killed before he can use it. My issue is that in the book it says that characters cannot be targetted, AND what about if the character has a command squad? Shouldnt casualities be taken off the command squad first as you would do in a regular squad? Really, think about this, wouldnt Marneus Calgar of the Ultramarines be taken out in every combat he shows up at?

    Space Marine Mike


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  3. #2
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    708 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Marine Mike
    1. If my sergeant has 3 attacks, do I still have to use the powerfist's initiative of one on the other attacks that the powerfist is not being used on? It is my understanding that the reason the powerfist strikes last is because it is bulky and cumbersome and so (in my mind) should not affect attacks made with other weapons the sergeant may be carrying.
    If the Sergeant has a second weapon, he may opt to use that instead of the Powerfist and follow those rules instead. You only suffer the init penalty when using the Powerfist as your main weapon. Also, he can always "turn off" the Powerfist and strike at normal strength, normal init should he choose to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Marine Mike
    2. According to an article I read here regarding "hidden powerfists" the author says that characters should never be given a powerfist because he can be targeted and killed before he can use it. My issue is that in the book it says that characters cannot be targetted, AND what about if the character has a command squad? Shouldnt casualities be taken off the command squad first as you would do in a regular squad? Really, think about this, wouldnt Marneus Calgar of the Ultramarines be taken out in every combat he shows up at?
    Independant Characters work differently than Sergeants. Check out page 50 of the BGB as to how to tell the difference between an Independant Character and a standard character, like a Sergeant. Even in a Command squad, an Independant Character will always be an IC. The Command Squad does not hide him in Close Combat.

    Long story short - yes, it is bad to give an IC a power/chainfist and nothing else.


  4. #3
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Marine Mike
    1. If my sergeant has 3 attacks, do I still have to use the powerfist's initiative of one on the other attacks that the powerfist is not being used on? It is my understanding that the reason the powerfist strikes last is because it is bulky and cumbersome and so (in my mind) should not affect attacks made with other weapons the sergeant may be carrying.
    All atackas made by a character must be made with the same weapon. You can choose not to use the powerfist and use a different wepaon he carries if you like (like a powersword). Other then that you can always opt to make all your attacks normally without using a weapon (they are just normal close combat attacks as your model elbows, head buts and verbally abuses his enemies).

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Marine Mike
    2. According to an article I read here regarding "hidden powerfists" the author says that characters should never be given a powerfist because he can be targeted and killed before he can use it. My issue is that in the book it says that characters cannot be targetted, AND what about if the character has a command squad? Shouldnt casualities be taken off the command squad first as you would do in a regular squad? Really, think about this, wouldnt Marneus Calgar of the Ultramarines be taken out in every combat he shows up at?
    Well, I wrote the article, and as caluin pointed out, you are a little confused at the difference between Characters and Independant Characters. Independant Characters should NEVEr begiven fists, this is correct. They actually fight models in base to base (wich means an oposing IC can devote all his ttacks to your IC) with them so going last is very very dangerous. The othe reason of course is that if your squad attacks before your IC and your opoennt removes the models in base to base with your IC as casualties, your IC cant hurt anyone. ANd that would make the fist useless.

    And yes, if marneus calgar didnt have 4 wounds, he would die every time he came up against another IC in combat. Fortunately, that extra wound seems to keep him in good stead most of the time. As it is he still dies in combat with other ICs sometimes, if they are powerful enough. Librariens tend to make a mess of him.

    Casualties in close combat follow different rules then casualties in shooting. I suggest you read th erest of your rulebook.
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

  5. #4
    Junior Member Space Marine Mike's Avatar
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    Okay, IC's run around without a command squad. Got it. But having to make all your attacks with only one weapon doesnt sound right. If my sergeant has a powerfist and a bolt pistol, it seems to me that he should be able to attack once with each. btw I have been into this game since 87, but havent had the opportunity to play very much and unfortunately much of what I have read will not stick until I get the chance to play more.

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    Son of LO Silver Wings's Avatar
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    Chaosbrynn is correct on the rules. Only one weapon may be used. The one exception the the rule is the ASpace Wolf special charecter Logan Grimnir. He can split his attack types through a special weapon.

    You can use your fist or your c.c weapon with your Sergeant.
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  7. #6
    LO Zealot magnet_man's Avatar
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    I think I'm blind because I was flipping through the BGB and I couldn't find where it said you had to devote all your CC attacks to one of your weapons. Does anyone have the page number?

    Also devoting all your attacks to one weapon seems to defeat the point of having two CC weapons. Logically, swinging a powerfist is supposed to be slow and cumbersone (hence the lowest initiative) yet, with 2 CC weapons you get two attacks. In otherwords, you get two attacks with the slowest weapon. Yet something that isn't as cumbersone and is not a CC weapon (i.e. bolter) does not give you a bonus. I know I could swing a rifle a couple of times before I could swing a big heavy gauntlet. But there maybe other logic I'm missing
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  8. #7
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnet_man
    I think I'm blind because I was flipping through the BGB and I couldn't find where it said you had to devote all your CC attacks to one of your weapons. Does anyone have the page number?
    Yes. Page 46 of the BGB, left hand column, second paragraph , third sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by magnet_man
    Also devoting all your attacks to one weapon seems to defeat the point of having two CC weapons. Logically, swinging a powerfist is supposed to be slow and cumbersone (hence the lowest initiative) yet, with 2 CC weapons you get two attacks. In otherwords, you get two attacks with the slowest weapon. Yet something that isn't as cumbersone and is not a CC weapon (i.e. bolter) does not give you a bonus. I know I could swing a rifle a couple of times before I could swing a big heavy gauntlet. But there maybe other logic I'm missing
    You're trying to apply logic to a game with hard, set rules. You can't do that. We play a certain way because the rules say we play that way, not because logic tells us what we think is supposed to happen.


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    LO Zealot magnet_man's Avatar
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    Thanks, I had skimmed right over that sentence. Well, time to change the way I play! I'll also have to correct a few people at the local hobby shop.

    Yeah I know I'm applying logic to a set of rules, the problem is that they use logic a lot of the times when designing the rules so that they emulate a real world experience (or as real of world as you can have in the 41st millenium with wars raging over the galaxy). Usually in the BGB they say when the rules don't follow logic with an game designer's note. Oh well, at least I won't be cheating anymore.

    Thanks again!
    Tim Wright

    "The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
    -John Gilmore

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