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I was wondering if assault termies should ever be used. If so, against what army.
Any advice will be appreciated
I cannot see a reason to use them at all, perhaps if used in a LR but I really dont like them either so I say hell no.
The reason to use assault terminators is 24 S5 I5 re-roll to wound power weapon attacks on the charge, plus another 6 S9 I1 power weapon attacks that auto shake vehicles, having come a upto 20 inches out of an AV14 vehicle that potentially shot 12 bolter shots, 4 assault cannon shots, and a multi melta. (6 Assault Termis with claws, 2 with Thunder Hammers, with Furious Charge, loaded into Land Raider Crusader). Even if the LRC doesn't shoot (to be able to move the 12 inches in the move phase), you can reasonably expect to get 12 or 13 unsavable wounds versus WS4+ troops and 18-20 against WS3 and below. That will demolish most units completely. Oh, and for added goodness, swap one of the LC termis with a Termi-armored Chaplain. Then you reroll your missed attacks, too, for another 4 to 8 unsavable wounds, depending on WS.
It's an expensive squad, but there's very little in the game, except possibly an Ulthwe Seer Council of Doom (tons of cheap warlocks and rerolled 4+ invulnerable save) or a tooled up Broodlord+11 Stealers retinue (I6 with ungodly number of rending/power weapon attacks) that can stand up to that sort of assault.
However, it's also a bit of a fragile hammer. Against a heavy shooting army, if you lose the LRC early, the termis are going to be hurting by the time they finally hit the enemy lines at 6 inches of movement a turn. Fortunately you can reasonably expect to deliver your terminators on turn 2, especially if you move 12 and pop smoke on the LRC the first turn, or can maneuver behind some cover.
That said, I wouldn't bother to take them unless you're already planning on giving them the LRC, or you habitually play armies where you can expect to keep them locked in melee (so they can't be shot) most of the game.
They're fantastic against non-stealer Tyrannids and any sort of Orks (20 unsavable wounds is enough that even with rending claws or Choppas, there's not going to be a lot of attacks coming back from that brood/mob). They're very good against assault-oriented Marines (12 unsavable wounds means there's nothing left of even the largest assault squads to strike back at I4 if you charge). They're reasonably good against any assault-oriented builds of both types of Eldar, if your LRC can reliably survive the first turn's worth of Brightlances/Darklances. They're also fantastic against Necrons, again, if you can survive the first turn worth of heavy gauss cannons and particle whips; if you can, that's a pretty much an entire squad of warriors, flayed ones, pariahs, or immortals that'll be gone every turn (no WBB against power weapons).
They're generally not very good against Tau or IG; the LRC will die too soon, and they'll get carved up before they make combat, and even if they do make combat, they're killing models that are too cheap and unimportant relative to their own cost. Killing an entire squad of 10 IG grunts in one round may be satisfying, but that squad was probably only worth 80 victory points at best, and even Tau Firewarriors aren't that much more expensive to be worth weathering that much S5 firepower. And Tau especially, you're not going to get their important squads, like the suits, as they can out maneuver you too easily. Stand and shoot oriented Marines and most forms of Witchhunter/Daemonhunters is a bit of a toss up, if you make combat, it's generally okay because those sorts of shooters are a decent return on investment. However there's still a pretty good chance you're going to be too badly beat up before you're safe in assault, and Grey Knight Termis are even more badass than you. Shooty Eldar armies, especially with lots of Dark Lances or Star Cannons can be problematic, doubly so if those weapons are mounted mostly on fast skimmers like Raiders or Vypers that you'll have trouble getting close to even with the rest of your army.
Last edited by TheDaR; March 28th, 2006 at 01:12.
I've tried using them and had some great success.
The best application for Assault Termies is against Necrons. They serious lack AP2 shooting, and unless they take a C'tan you can walk over any of their units in close combat. The also great thing is that Necrons have range issues, when they are walking towards you apart from their Destroyers (which should be your first targets) they lack shooting >24". This means they dont get many shooting phases before you are on them, and once you are in close combat with Necrons you'll win. They are also preferable to Powerfist termies as Necron players sometimes take Pariahs or Tomb Spyders as an anti-termy unit (which will indeed shred them). Lightning Claw termies will have no such problem.
Oh and if your going to spend so many points taking termies, give them a terminator armour Chaplain as well.
"Yay, I have charged. I will now re-roll all to hit, and then re-roll all to wound. Oh and they are all power-weapon attacks.".
Nothing is more satifying than a 7 man Terminator squad not only carving up 7 Nurgle Terminators in one turn, but 7 Plaguemarines as well.
Addoran is correct, they are exeptionally lethal against Necrons, and they have little to fear from a particle whip.
"Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the conquest of it." -Anon
The Termis themselves don't really fear the Particle Whip, no. Just their ride. Even against Necrons you'll want to put them in a Land Raider, as otherwise you'll may spend 2 turns walking that you could have spent killing Necrons to force a phase out. And S9 Particle Whips and Heavy Gauss Cannons actually stand a good chance against a Land Raider.
As for the chaplain, definitely agree. If you're going to spend that many points on the unit anyhow, put the chaplain with them and make them really insane.
Bolter Blasting Blizzard = Victory
I love assault Termies. I use them if I am having a decent sized battle if possible. I used them recently against another marine player and they ate their way thru 2 chaplains, 10 assault marines, and 15+ marines and the opponents land raider crusader in 3 turns. They are great fun to use and I really like the look of (the old metal) lightning claws.. of course the minimum points to use them is 2000 and thats stretching it. I have seen the m fall to massed plasma fire the once or twice their crusader was destroyed, but in the end everything can be killled in the wrong situation..
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff