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  1. #1
    Member Elric101's Avatar
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    Tactical squads or devestator squads with heavy weapons

    Hi
    I was just wondering that aren't two 5 man tactical squads with heavy weapons cheaper and more efficient than an 8 man devestator. For example, a lascannon in a tactical squad is 20 points cheaper than in a devestator. And if you have more smaller man squads they can choose seperate targets more easily. Wouldn't you agree. The only advantage of devestators is that you can have four hv. weapons not just one and a special weapon(e.g.flamer,plasma gun).

    Feel free to post your thoughts on the matter and where you prefer to place your hv. weapons


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    Member Alt+F4's Avatar
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    For some weapons taking them in a tactical squad is much cheaper (like ML and H thatn using a dev squad. I like to take Lascannons or plasmacannons in tac squads. For the dev squads most people go with 4 ML. I thionk that works, because to get 4 ML in tac squads you have to spend about 400 or so points, while with a dev squad its like 200 or 250 points.


    "God made man, but Samuel Colt made man equal."

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    Hi
    I was just wondering that aren't two 5 man tactical squads with heavy weapons cheaper and more efficient than an 8 man devestator. For example, a lascannon in a tactical squad is 20 points cheaper than in a devestator. And if you have more smaller man squads they can choose seperate targets more easily. Wouldn't you agree. The only advantage of devestators is that you can have four hv. weapons not just one and a special weapon(e.g.flamer,plasma gun).

    Feel free to post your thoughts on the matter and where you prefer to place your hv. weapons
    You are 100% correct. You should usually fill up tac squads before using any devastators unless you have a specific job for them. Eg holding an objective.

    2 Tac Squads with Las / plas will put out the same firepower as a dev squad and is cheaper.


    Now, having moved them into the tac squads you have to ask " I it worth tieing up a whole squad for the sake of a single heavy weaon that can't move and fire?"

    I think the answer is no.

    So tac squads with heavy weapons are better than dev squads but
    tac squads without heavy weapons are better than tac squads with heavy weapons.

    So the answer is, heavy weapons belong somewhere else..........


    There are plenty of places where the heavy weapons can move and fire, this is where they belong. EG Dreadnaughts, terminators, speeders, bikes and tanks.

    I use Terminators, speeders, landraiders, predators and dreadnaughts and no heavy weapons in tac or devastator squads. It is tactically advantageous to be able to move and fire at full effect.

    Keep your tac squads mobile and they will be much more effective.

  5. #4
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Wow! A thread of yours I dont have to close!

    Hello,

    You are correct in your assumption. Due to the price reduction of weapons in tactical squads it is often more efficient to place your heavy weapons in tactical squads. Lascannons and plasma cannons are just far too expensive to be placed in dev squads.

    However, Missile launchers and heavy bolters, while still more expensive in dev squads are cheap enough to make for excellent heavy weapon firepower. In the case of missile launchers it will cost you almost 150 points extra to get the same ammount of them in tactical squads as you do in a single dev squad. Sure you get a bunch of extra marines with them, but sometimes you want heavy weapons without the extra cost.

    In any case, if you go into the index of space marine articles and read the tactical squad tactica you will see that this is a common concept. If you go look throgh the army lists you will notice that many SM commanders do indeed use tactical squads for their las/plas heavies. It is a cheap and efficient way to use up your troops squads while still getting the anti tank or anti heavy infantry you need.

    For Aprils issue of LO's E-zine I will be writing a tactica on devstator squads wich will include how and why to use the more expensive weapons, be sure to keep a lookout for it.

    Cheers Mate!
    Chaosbrynn
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

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    Senior Member BringerOfStorms's Avatar
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    Generally the rule seems to be.

    Heavy Bolters and Missle Launchers in Devastator Squads (8-10 man).

    Plasma Cannons and LasCannons in Tactical squads (5-6 man).

    Multi-Meltas left on the shelf.

    I have gone by these rules, and they work well for me. Only exception to these rules that I have made, that worked, was to mix Plasma Cannons and Heavy Bolters into one Devastator squad for use against Tau, and that worked great. As they say, rules are meant to be broken.
    Bolter Blasting Blizzard = Victory

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    ....coookies... GDMNW's Avatar
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    I think you ought to consider...

    the psychology of gaming.

    If the world of 40k boiled down to points effciency and careful range finding exercises then the mathematicians would always win, or at least win by some carefully calculated percentage of the time.

    Your opponent has to choose what to shoot and what, how to move, where to move and where not to move. Regardless of the numbers and maths involved any player is going to worry about putting light infantry in front of an objective held by a marine devastator squad armed with 4 Heavy Bolters. This is area denial and can be worth more points to you than a marine here or there.

    The same goes for tanks wandering in front of a squad with 4 Lascannons. Would you do it? It sounds like suicide to me. Anyone is willing to run the gauntlet against a single lascannon but the effect of 4 together is immense before they even open fire.

    In short Devastator squads have implications for the battle field because the concentrate fire power. If it was all about the number of guns then everyone would simple use the most efficient route. Instead it is all about your style of play, the way your opponents play and, since this is a game, having fun while trying to blow away the enemy.

    At least that is what I think...



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    Both or neither

    With a Hvy weapon (doens't really matter type), you are dedicating your tac squad to stay put and shoot or to move and not use the heavy weapon. Obviously hvy weapons don't belong in any squad that will invovled in CC since it is a waste. If your tacs are static, take and hold or defensive behind barrier, then take the heavy weapon that most suits combating the strengths of your opponent. If your opponent is "tanky" (including monoliths or TMC) then LC's are the way to go. Light infantry based (orcs, eldar, non crisis tau, gaunt swarm) hvy bolter makes sense to maximize light killing power. Superhvy infantry (TMC, crisis tau, terminators) I would take the plasma cannon.

    Of course, if your squad has to move alot, then hvy weapons in tac squads makes little sense, although the plasma gun is a welcome firepower addition.
    When in doubt call in an ordnance strike.

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    Member grimaldus53's Avatar
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    Seeing as I play BT's I can't have devastators. This means i need to use my tac squads for heavy weapons. in my lists i usually use 2 20 man crusade squads and leave 1-2 squads for missile launchers/plasma guns. Otherwise I'll use tanks, speeders, dreadnoughts and terminator squads. i prefer not to use attack bikes as they are not worth taking in replace of an actual bike squad or assault squad.

    I have found this set up to work well using the dreadnought as a tank or character killer with tank hunter (very effective) and the tanks and speeders as infantry and tank killers. The terminators I prefer to use as a terminator assault squad led by a Chaplin or Marshal and then thrown in LRC, though deep striking Terminators with AC or HF is hectic.8X
    Never broken, Never fallen, Courage out of fear.
    "Those who give up often do not realize just how close they are to success when they give up."

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