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Hey all i was thinking of starting whitch hunters. i just have one questions its about useing allys. on pg 61 of the codexs it shows wh allyed with daemon hunters . i could only find the restrictions for useing sm and ig on pg 26. i couldnt find the restrictions for dh. does this mean that i can use anything from either codex to make one list? im not sure if anyone can help me out id apreaciate it. Thx.
Page 21 of the DH codex and 25 of the WH codex have the rules for combining the armies, in that grey box in the bottom right. When you use one of these armies as an ally to the other, you aren't limited in WHAT units you may take as much as HOW MANY of them. 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troop, 0-1 Fast Attack, and 0 Heavy Support. You may freely mix SoB and GK together, etc. And yes, you may still have inducted IG or SM in the base army (but the allied army may NOT take inducted IG or SM).
o ok so if im useing wh as allys to dh then i can only take 0-1 hq,0-1 eliets,0-2 troops,0-1 fast and 0 heavy of wh. but if im useing dh as allys to wh theny i can only take 0-1 hq,0-1 eliets,0-2 troops,0-1 fast and 0 heavy of dh? am i right?
Check out the post made by Heathen on the WH/DH alliance.
I've found out that using grey knights and Sisters will totally screw you over in the long run. It looks like a great idea on paper but on the battle field it's not as nice as you thought. First off taking grey knights will take away from your faith points which is a biggie in my opinion. Any other questions feel free to ask!
If anybody disagrees with me Chuck Norris will roundhouse kick you in the face.....not really. But wouldn't it be cool?
Curious as to what, other than fewer Faith Points, hurts a joint list.Originally Posted by churchic
In my own experience they supplement each other nicely if done right.
I agree, I don't see how mixing GKs and SoBs would be bad. For all their miracles and acts of Faith and whatever, the simple fact is that nothing the Sisters have works as well up-close as GKs do. Give them all the wargear and Seraphims you want, a GK squad is still going to be more effective at close quarters due to their Storm Bolters and Nemesis Force Weapons. As far as shooting goes, the GKs get weapons designed to kill troops; the Sisters get the same weapons as SM tactical squads, plus they've got anti-armour options pretty much across the board. Looking at things from the perspective of someone who uses Faith points in every game I can see how losing some might be a bit of a downer, but since I'm a DH player first and foremost I'm not going to miss them, I'm looking at it as gaining a lot more mid-range firepower for a bargain basement price .
They can if you build it incorrectly. But an alliance can work great.Originally Posted by churchic
I've put a lot of thought into this, and here are my consclusions:
1- First, be warned that some tornaments deny allies (I am greatly opposed to this. All the pages in all rulebooks should be used. It is competely unfair to disqualify a selection of pages). Life ain't fair.
2- As a Rule, WH/DH alliances get better as the point scale gets bigger.
3- Sisters do not make much of a contribution to a DH parent army.
Sisters don't have the long-range, High Str weapons nor the cheap speedbumps that DH are looking for. Some of the more noteable contributions are:
- A Large Basic Sister Squad of 12-14 Girls.
(Very cost-efficient, stubborn group of 3+ saves, with devistating close-in fire; easiest to use)
- A single Seraphim Squad.
(Excellent mobility + ability to create targets of opportinity with "Jump-Back"; harder to use)
- A Tooled up Cannoness with Eviscerator and 2+ Inv
(A Character-Hunter; requires a good understanding of faith so as to get maximum return)
4- DH can make a very welcome contributiion to a WH parent:
- Basicly just take one squad of 8-10 GKs.
GKs are offensively potent in CC, where Sisters are offensively weak in CC. Even if sisters max out with [expensive] CC wargear, Sisters are still pathetic in CC next to your Joe-Average GK.
Now here's where the opportunity lies: Sisters wearing power armor can hold up for 2-3 turns in CC. So you only need 1 squad of GKs in the center, because if any sister squad gets charged, they are quite capable of holding the enemy for 2-3 turns, giving your GKs sufficient time to get involved and deliver their CC contribution. That is why you really only need to take 1 GK squad.
But the benefits don't end there. 8-10 extra stormbolters make a great contribution. Sisters can't take all Strombolters for special weapons, because they've got other things to worry about. Yes, they can take a few, but not a lot. A Dominion with a Stormbolter costs only 6 points less than a GK.
Think about that for a second: for 6 more points, you get +1T, +2Str, Fearless, and +1 Init. (wow)
So a sister player might think of himself as buying Expensive Stormboltes that come with a free profile overhaul. (and don't forget the shrouding)
But that's not all.
As I stated, WH CC wargear can be an exercise in futility. CC presents a wonderful challlenge to WH players, but a human statline is handily trumped by many armies. The GK is so good in CC, that this takes the pressure almost completley off the sisters (troops, at least) so that the girls can leave their CC wargear (and assasins) at home and save a lot of points.
This takes the pressure off sisters trying to resort to expensive (and dicey) CC solutions such as Eviscerators on Battle Siters Vets; Assasins; Assaulty Inquisitors; the PRIEST that goes with Arcos; and the general problem of Repentia.
Won't the opponent just target the GKs until they're all gone?
You don't have to let him if you don't want.
As early as tuns 1 & 2, the Exorcist, Seraphim, and Jumping Cannoness can all begin to punish mobile enemy units who are trying target your GKs. And if Static Enemy guns try to target your GKs, the GKs simply move out of the way, while still able to fire their Stormbolters. So if your opponent wants to target the GKs tenatiously, you can make that hurt. And don't forget that, every time a faithful squad of ssisters gets a little closer to the enemy, they become just a little more valuable as they approach Divine Guidance range.
A judiciously built WH army of 1500 can easily afford 1 squad of GKs for about 275 points.
Grey Knights are great at anti-troop, but lack in some anti-tank and lack in mobility. IST squads suck in general, so what would be better with Grey Knights than some Seraphim and a squad of Sisters or two with a couple of Melta-Guns in Rhinos? Add a Veteran Sister for some Faith and a power weapon, and you have a good mutlipurpose squad, not just to pop tanks, but to capture objectives, pull flanking manuevers etc.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
I agree on anti-armour, their only anti-armour is Land Raiders and Dreads, however when it comes to mobility I think they've got plenty. They can Deep Strike if need be, plus The Shrouding means they can footslog pretty well, and because all their weapons are Assault weapons they can move and shoot better than the likes of Tactical Squads and IST squads who have largely got Rapid Fire weapons. Everything about them is designed to allow them to get into CC with the minimum of hassle, and although they're slow compared to the likes of jump infantry squads they're far less likely to get gunned down as they advance and can pump out a reasonable hail of firepower as they go.Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer