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Apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam here in the forums. I tried searching for this and came up with 500 (!) threads, most of which had nothing to do with what I'm looking for.
Basically, I'm trying to figure out how or if I can bring DH units into a SM army and make it worth the points. I'm interested in GK termies and/or inquisitor + retinue. I already bought SM vet models because they were fun to paint and later found they were essentially worthless in my army unless I'm pushing 2,500 points. I like the GK and inquisitor/retinue models, but I don't wanna find myself in the same place later on. It seems GK troops are NOT worth it, but I MIGHT get away with the termies. I dunno.
Bottom line: Are there any unique models or units in either DH or, for that matter, WH armies that are worth the points to bring in as SM allies? Can anyone direct me to a tactica that covers DH or WH allied units in a SM army?
I dont believe we have such a tactica, but I will consider writing one.
For your purposes however, the answer is no. In general a unit of GK termies can be a good addition to a SM list. However, they are VERY expensive and basically face the same problem as vets. In low point games, chances are, they wont do that well for you.
Now of course, as always there are situations where even in low point games they could do very well. This is dependant on the oponents you face as well as their relative skill level.
As an example, if you happen to play against a lot of close combat MC's or demons, a unit of grey knight termies can be invaliable.
For an all comers/ tourny list, id have to advise leaving them at home. Once you have your basic SM list, you can feel free to add them, but I wouldnt consider them part of your "core" force.
Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.
Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC
I would say either the grey knight termies or grey knights are definitely worth it if you think that you will want allied troops. Grey knights, for only 10 points more than a tac marine, come with 2 attacks in CC that wound even T4 enemies on a 2+, a stormbolter instead of bolter, allowing you to fire twice AND charge, and can all deepstrike for free. Grey Knight Termies are great too but shouldn't be used like SM termies are. Grey Knight Termies wound most things on a 2+ as well, but have power weapons and don't strike last in combat. They absolutely tear apart enemy HQs and heavy infantry.
I would reccomend against the Inquisitor though. I don't find him very useful in a SM army, since their fire support can be gotten for cheaper points in tactical squads, and their CC power is pretty pathetic.
Et imperator Invocato Diabolus Daemonica Exorcist!
Being new myself. I was thinking of including grey knights in a SM army. If you are going to use termies anyways i would go with the grey knight variety. I also like the regular grey knights. The bonus to strength that the nemesis force weapons provides makes them even more powerful when taking on typical troops. Not to mention their better WS i think thats a small price to pay for the 10 points, plus all of their other normal bonus. You also get your "vet sergeant" with power weapon in the justicar. Well worth it in my opinion... now only if they didn't cost so much to purchase...
grey knight terminators and space marine terminators are about as different as can be. regular terminators should be brought as more walking assualt cannons that are hard to kill. GK termies are only good in CC and will often get shot to pieces before they can get in.
Take life seriously, its lethal.
I agree with DomWepGrp. I personally look to include FA PAGK in the occasional SM force just as a "surprise! I'm gonna beat you down in CC!" force. They are more shooty than GK termies, and 18 S6 attacks and 3 PW attacks per turn are pretty devastating to just about anyone!
Marion: You're not the man I knew ten years ago.
Indiana: It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage.
For the last time, there are
NO FEMALE SPACE MARINES!!!!!
you could make power armored grey knights work well for u. give teleport homer to a squad (my preference would be assault marines for their ability to manuever quikly to the front lines). move em up. if the squad comes in by turn 2, assault the closest squad and move the GKs behind the skirmish (assuming said squad won't rip thru ur assault marines during your assault phase)! if the GKs come later, move em 6" away from assault. why do this? assault skirmish going on becomes a meat shield, protecting your DS marines from enemy fire.
of course there are flaws to this plan (i.e. assault squad getting shot before turn 2, GKs not arriving), but i find this keeps a useful squad alive and kicking.
"One thing that intrigues people to fantasy is how different it is from reality. Make sure you remember that difference, and you'll have a wonderful time."
I think it's definitely worth it to bring in some GK Terminators... I recently added a squad of 6 to my SM army, and though I haven't had much experience with them yet, they've been fantastic in every game I've used them. With a little (little) bit of help from my SM Assault Squad, those 6 Terminators took down two hole squads of Khorne Berzerkers against a Chaos opponent. Granted, only the squad leader survived to tell the tale, but 6 Terminators against 20 Berzerkers seems a fair trade to me.
In short, the GK Termies are so monstrous in close combat that they add alot even to the already skilled Space Marines. Their Storm Bolters give you good firepower on the move, and will generally kill a lot more models in one turn than your generic Marines.
Look at Grey Knight Termies as basically Assault Terminators with a bit more flexibilty. If are thinking of Assault Termies give GKTs a look instead.
I agree with the previously mentioned best Grey Knight unit to ally is a FAGK squad. Full squad of 10 either walking or Deep Striking depending on the mission can be a real thorn in your enemy's side.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
Ok, so two questions:Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer
First, what's the best gear to give a GK termie squad if I plan to DS them? I've read somewhere that the incinerator is a BAD(tm) idea. If not that, then is the psycannon worth it? Anything else I should consider?
Secondly, I seem to hear some people griping GK units are pricey, yet they suggest a 10-man PAGK squad??? That's MUCH more expensive than a 5-6 man GK termie squad isn't it?