Welcome to Librarium Online!
I play Space Marines, I have since I got back into the game about five years ago. I have a fondess for the foot slogging army. I used to use a great deal of terminators, Three full squads..but after I switched with my buddy and let him use my army I found out that with all those terminators, Yes I will win, ALOT. But it's not all that fun, and it's REALLY not fun for my opponent 90% of the time.
I also have a REAL hard time forkin g over damn near fifty bucks for a Tank Im going to hate painting and building. To date my only complete and painted "Vehicle" is the Dreadnought that came in my SM Battle Force.
But what I LOVE more than anything else is the SM infantry. I should state I guess that I play a DIY chapter- The Black Knights. And will soon have my sizeable Space Wolf force done and ready to field. And a small Detachment of Daemonhunters. As you can see and guess, I am fixated upon the SM.
I have a great many way's I've played my army, trying to feel it out and make it "Different" . To date I have come up with this. I play all infantry, and no Armour or Termies, or Bikes, or anything with an armor value. A quick Jist of my List:
HQ: Space Marine Master w/ Librarian and Chaplain attached to command squad. Furious Charge and the specialists. ( I had to model them out myself, just too cool to pass up).
ELite: 2 Veteran Squads
1: Tank Busters- COmbi Melta/Power fist, Power fist/ Melta gun/4 More maries. Tank Hunters
2: Hunter Killers- 8 Marines, Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon, Power fist, Power Weapon. Infiltrate.
2 Full Tac Squads
2 Firebase Squads of 7 marines each. Both with a Plasma Gun, and Plasma Cannon
2 Anti Tank Squads- 7 Marines Lascannon, Plasma Gun
1: Devestator Fire Team: 4 Heavy Bolters, 7 Marines Strong
2: Devestator Heavy Team: 1 Lascannon, 3 Missile Launchers, 7 Marines Strong
1: Jump Pack Assault Marines: 8 Strong/2 Plasma Pistols/Vet.Srg w/Powerwep
2: Two Assault Foot teams: 7 Man Assault Squad no Jumpacks w/ 2 Plasma Pistols
That is to a greater or lesser degree my average list. When arger games are fielded, I add my Furious assault Vet. Squad and take another HQ Independant character to add to the assault teams.The HQ Moves in an assembled, but only black primed RHino. So they normally get there, however...for this Squad it really only pays off if fighting a Power armor of 3+/4+ base save army. For armies such as Tyranids/I.G./Orcs/DarkEdlar/Eldar I wouldn't mind getting soem suggestions on better uses of the points. And I will try them, I have tha tlsited, but have over 300 Space Marines Assembled, Painted (Almost done lol), and ready to use. So please, throw anyting out there you think might help.
Also side notes: I like ot use the Infiltrate Chapter Trait sometimes, it lets almost my whole SM army Infiltrate with this list set up. Any ideas on that base I would appreciate too.
Semper Fidelus Imperialis
in my opinion it looks fine as it is. maybe change heavy 2 to all missiles...
most would advise that the assault marines have a power fist instead of a power weapon, but either works well.
also too many plasma weapons, but that may just be me. keep them if you want.
it's a good list and i like the fact that the whole thing infiltrates. makes it very unique.
TAU PLAYER - GREY KNIGHTS PLAYER - WOOD ELVES PLAYER (kind of)
"Grey Knight terminators aren't 'good.' THEY'RE F****N AWESOME!!"
make sure your squads have an even number of marines e.g. 6,8 or 10. This is for underhalf strenght and such.
DonÂ´t mess with the dicegod
How many points are we talking about? This is a huge number of marines. Also, concerning your elites, the tank busting squad is very weak and it would take them 3-4 turns to be able to utilise their meltaguns at full effect, unless there were vehicles coming at them.
IMO, to use the assault marines to their full potential suit them up with jump packs. Keep the plasma pistols, but for your vet sarge use a power fist, not a power weapon. As said before, try to keep your squads in even numbers. Also, change the guy with a lascannon in your second dev squad to a missile launcher. This will keep the squad relatively simple, and is a proven strategy. Why put a Chappie and Libbie in the same squad? It seems counterintuitive to have an assaulter with a spellblaster. IMO, just take the Chappie and attach him to one of your assault squads with jump packs.
Well the reason I have the Librarian and Chaplain attached is simple, as I will share...This is the most powerhouse SM unit for CC I have ever played...and I've tried them all...
The chaplain attachment allows me to re-roll those misses with all those expensive power weapons and when 12-16 of those attacks are WS 5 this means a good lot of my opponenets will die. It also makes me fearless in CC.
THe Librarian comes with a Familiar. What this means is that his normal initiative will be 6. Thus normally allowing me to go with him before anyone else in CC, and with his force weapon he can hunt Sergeants and Ind. Charries. On top of that, you add in that the squad has fuirous charge and this makes him Initiative 7!!! That means He beat out even Eldar and Gene stealers initiative wise and hack up quite a bit, with a tossed in Might Of Heroes to add another D3 attacks to any in my unit, this is a BIG power house punch.
This squad comes with:
10 WS 5 initiative 5(6) Strength 4(5) Power Weapon attacks
5 WS 5 Inititive 6(7) Strength 4(5)Power weapon attacks
12 Initiative 4 (5) Strength 4(5) Power Weapon/Fist attacks from Srg. And Specialists.
Is Fearless in CC.
Can Re-ROll all misses in first round.
Librarian can add 1-3 Additoional attacks to th at tally as well.
As for the assault troops with jump packs-
I took them w/o Jump Packs due to the fact that I may use the Bolt Pistol/CC wep Trait and liked the look when I was able to model them and convert them. And I find one unit with Jump Packs, a power fist,a nd plasma pistols is good enough for 90% of the games I play, so I shave the points.
I throw in the Las-Cannon for the odd Land Raider/Monolith I end up fighting, for that little extra edge.
The Tank Hunters:
When I use these guys, I forgot to add that either I put them in my old black Rhino lol, and Drive by Melta gunning is effective. Or I Inflitrate them instead of the Tank Hunters rule. Gets them in the mix quick to trash vehicles, and weapons assure they can fight their way out.
As for Fleshing out differenmt squads. I do plan to add one or drop one here or there. I find that normally my squads NOT in heavy combat take 3-4 Casualites a game so I just have enough to keep the Heavy weapons there. As for the Plasma Weapons, it's a very versatile gun with Ligth Vehicle and Heavy infantry stopping power. And the plasma cannons takes care of any Termy or Power armor they have nicely.
Please more input!
Semper Fidelus Imperialis
yes it might be a powerhouse unit in close combat, but come up to a landraider tank shock, or equal points of shootin back at you, your not gunna have much when u get into cc.
(I place this nice S10 vindicator blast/lance torpedo/somethin nasty on ur cc squad, too bad, if i dont scatter bad, i wound on 2's, and ur guys will die except ur chaplain, who will have to take a invunerable or die, bye bye 500 pt army
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Well Cypher, i never said they were unbeatable. I stated as to why I used them, and the real bottom line, non statwise is...well. I like characters. As for your Landrainder/Vindicator comment. Well duh, that cna be said of most any unit. Especially fighting IG, or Even a monolith. A
And as for the "But/So/Then?What If?" Response, no ofeense meant really Cypher, those posts or responses just realyl stick in my craw, nothing is unbeatable. I've seen an Iyanden that was close lol, but no one squad is unbeatable. And a STR 10 Blast Template is gonna cook most any squad, HQ or not. I could just as easily asay?" Yeah, well what if since you gotta be close to it I get a turn before you can and blow it up with Lascannons and Rocket Launcher's? OR My Anti Tank unit?" See, there are innumerable battlefield conditions to render any tactyical ability or asset neutral. I wasn't lookingf ro what could Kill my unit. Grots could kill it. I was looking for constructive critisism. Thanks, I welcome mroe feedback, and I;ll post picks of this army very soon. :-D
Ok well your army is fairly slow, (unless youve got infiltrate on all the squads, but you dont, since some of them have tank hunters or furious charge)
I like the idea of hordy space marine list, but its difficult to pull off right, i think you should attempt to mix/max it a little more.
Your command squad will do well against things in good armour, but hordy things such as orcs or nids, arent gonna be as effected. Though no doubt the squad will do ok for awhile. But if youd spread the points out a bit, say buying 2 chaplains, then your army would be infact better in CC, for less points.
This is because chaplains are so dominate in assault because of the bonus they give to the squad around them.
Shooty tactical squads only need 6 men, while devs would be best with 8 men.
I dont understand why you only have 1 fast squad. This squad is going to zip up, hit CC, get overwhelmed and probably die fairly quickly. They can hit assault by turn 2.
While the rest of your army charges turn 3 if your lucky. Against opponent like mech tau, its unlikely youll get into CC at all. Finally if your not a fast unit you cant be sure youll be able to charge, and in the case of your command squad this would be bad, since they are way more powerful on the charge.
Good luck though, if your winning all your games, try playing against better opponents.
Last edited by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar; April 4th, 2006 at 18:07.
Far too expensive, far too vulnerable, far too slow. Squad could be far more efficient if you started squad with a chappie, and added a chappie and lib to it. Standard bearer isnt a necessary upgrade and honestly id drop the apothecary too. All the HQ's should be the 2 wound variety.Originally Posted by HumanusImperialis
In any case, squads such as these, regardless how you tool them, have one major problem. With a 12" charge range (6" move + 6" charge) you really cant relly on them to A) get the charge and Charge enough squads in a game.
I believe you said you put them in a rhino. Rhinos are notoriously easy to destroy. Do your oponents just not fire upon it? Having that many points entangled for a turn really blows. A drop pod would probably do you better. Cheaper and at least its guarantaeed to get you where your going.
Im sure the squad looks great, and so long as someone doesnt specifically take advantage of you (genestealers charging the oposite side of the squad then your lib is on OR Mobbed by orks, OR plague marines with fists and plague swords, etc, etc) the squad probably would kill a bunch of stuff. Its 3 IC's after all.
In any case, I really cant see how you get away with this. That is a huge ammount of points that is exceptionally easy to neutralize one way or another. Personally, id go with something simpler and more effective. If anything I would go of a max of 2 IC's. But even when doing that there is still no way to fix the movement problem. For this kind of points you could field 2 hq's attached to full assualt squads or full bike squads. Those would be far more effective due to the increased movement of the squads. gets them in combat quicker, is more reliable then a rhino by far and more importantly, aftfer their first combat they will definately get to a second and possibly even a third or fourth.
I meen I could go on all day about this (vulnerabilities to large templates, mass fire, and a slew of other problems) but I hopefully have gotten my point across. Save squads like this for 3K+. There is so much you could do with those points that would be better tactically.I dont understand this. Or rather I understand this, I just dont see why you are using it? Your going to walk this squad at 6" a turn and chase down your oponents vehicles? With a combi melt and a melta gun? I hope you werent counting those pfists as tank busters. Its hard to assault a tank your oponent doesnt want you to assault. Especially with 6" movers. More importantly if you do, youll be hitting on 6"s. Better to just shoot the damned thing as you hit on a 3+. Your packing enough lascannons and missile launchers that such a squad as this is completely redundant. I would drop it in favor of something that actually has a purpose in conjunction with your list.Originally Posted by HumanusImperialisOk aside from small things like the sarg should have the pfist as youll save on points that way (pfist in the actual squad is friggin expensive) I would drop the plasma pistol. Its expensive and gives you a chance to lose a very expensive model. Considering the rest of your list (this is your only infiltrator) I can see this taking the brunt of either your oponents firepower or its dedicated close combat units. I would either drop the lone infiltrator or change some things around to better support them (bike squads or speeders can back up this squad by turn 2, generally)Originally Posted by HumanusImperialisAs is 10 bolter marines? ok. Honestly, probably a good idea. Thats only 150 points that will be hard as hell to deal with and if you lose them it sno big deal to your overall army.Originally Posted by HumanusImperialisId drop a marine from each of these squads. 6 is more then enough to guard 2 weapons. The lascannons should be firing each turn so the squad wont be going very far if anywhere at all. It should be able to keep itself clear of close combat.Originally Posted by HumanusImperialis8 Marines would be better in these squads. Scoring purposes and VP's.Originally Posted by HumanusImperialisThe first assault squad really needs the extra 2 men and the wep should be a fist. Some people disagree for a while, but anyone whos had their entire assault squad annihilated by a C'tan, Wraithlord or Dreadnought will understand why a powerfist is so important. It also makes your assualt squad incredibly dangerous to enemy IC's.Originally Posted by HumanusImperialis
I was going to go off about how the no jump pack assualt squads should be changed but I changed my mind. They will add close combat punch to the slow moving portion of your force as well as some higher strength lower ap shooting.
The idea behind your list is sound. Firepower + counter assult units. However, I dont particularly agree with the choices you made in doing this, as you can see. But hey, if it works for you, go with it.
Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.
Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC