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Hey guys, i've become completely enamoured by the Black Templars codex... however i on general principle don't like the black templars.
My solution? make a DIY chapter that uses the black templars rules. I've hit a bit of a snag though, I was going to try setting this chapter in the 21st founding, but the articles on GW UK's site are unclear as to whether the chapters presented there are the only chapters that were made in the 21st founding or whether there were others.
Here's the sketchy fluff i had in mind:
Silver Swords chapter (the name may or may not be changed)
An attempt to fix some of the deficient gene-seed material in the Black Templars, as well as bring the chapter into a closer proximity to an Index Astartes composition (more specifically the use of librarians), the silver swords were experimented on. The result was that every single marine had some manner of psychic ability, though not able to be harnessed as librarians, nor to the extent of the grey knights. The psychic abilities they DID have though was something akin to empathy, emotional states spread extremely quickly through the chapter in close proximity (justifying the oaths). The drawback though, is that they tended to be emotionally unstable, even for marines, given to very strong emotions, leaving a psychic imprint on their battle brothers. As their chapter grew, they returned to the structure of the Black Templars, but missing their emperor's champion... soon though, as the heroic battle brothers fell, the other marines grew more and more enraged. To be a hero in this chapter is to die.
At one historic engagement, when the battle was turning against the Silver Swords, they began to pray over their fallen marshall, at daybreak, a whispy green figure clad in power armor appeared to the marines, bearing an appearance similar to the Marshall that had fallen in battle... This apparition led the Silver Swords to a victory (thus justifying the emperor's champion... the combined minds of the chapter summoning up the psychic apparition of their fallen comrade). Since then, at every engagement, the Silver Swords pray for the guidance of a hero from their chapter, whose ghostly figure appears to lead them.
So, again my question is: could this chapter be pheasable? is the number of 21st founding chapters undefined? if no, could this work as a chapter of a previous founding?
I think this should be in the fluff forum.
I dont think this suits a 21 fouding chapter as no one knows what gene-seed was used.Also ghosts leading SM,emotionlessness seems the =][= might have something to say about that.
I think this will work as another founding a so long as you include why they havent been killed by the =][=.
=][= = Inquistion.
I agree, this should be over in the fluff forums.
Anyway, the 21st (cursed) founding was one of the largest foundings thusfar in the history of the Imperium, but this came with a price. Many of the chapters have had strings of bad luck, suffered strange mutations to thier gene-seed, suffered insurmountable losses, or simply vanished, never to be seen again.
This is all relatively common knowledge in the Imperium of Man, as much as anything relating to the Adeptus Astartes can be common knowledge. What only a few of the most senior Inquisitors know, however, is that the 21st founding was (at least in part) an attempt to recreate the Emperors success in creating the Primarchs of the original Space Marine Legions.
Project Homo Sapiens Novus was a top secret scheme to re-build, re-grow, re-create the Primarchs. Genetic manipulation and vastly speeded growth were used to grow the new Primarchs. Thier newly created gene-seed was then used to create the chapters that form the 21st founding, as the gene-seed of the original primarchs was used to create the first legions.
Unfortunately, a series of disasterous occurences befell the top secret Adeptus Mechanicus base where the primarchs were being grown. The base fell out of contact with the Imperium, and by the time anyone came to investigate, there was almost no sign of what had occurred deep within the Labratoriums.
[Extrapolated from Index:Astartes volume 2, or from a fairly old White Dwarf]
Note that the chapters on the GW web site are NOT the only 21st founding chapters, but are probably the worst affected by thier curses.
Anyway, all of this means that strictly speaking, your chapter cannot have been decended from the Black Templars (who themselves are actually decended from the Imperial Fists).
I don't really like the fact that your chapter is strangely emotional, and I'm really unsure about making an entire chapter of psychic Space Marines, as the Grey Knights are watched over closely by the Inquisition, and the only other similar chapter I'm aware of (the Exorsists, there is some info about them on the old War for Armageddon website) is also under close Inquisitional scrutiny.
However, there are far more bizarre and unlikely seeming forces at large in the Imperium, I don't see why yours wouldn't survive. Say the ghost is some kind of avatar of faith, a divine manifestation of the Emperor's Will and you should be ok.
Good luck in all your battles, and I hope I was of some use.
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Sorry about this not being in the fluff forum i'll know next time.
Hmm... Well, I've thought it over, and perhaps the rationale for it is a bit off.
Basically, i want to keep the Black templar 'feel' of crusading knights, use their rules, and figure out a way to have a ghostly emperor's champion (the idea is just too cool to give up, in my opinion)
I can do this one of two ways, one, i can make the whole army a successor chapter that happens to like or was mandated to take up crusading (i know that the Lamenters and, i think, the Mantis Warriors have both been sent on amazingly long crusades following the Badab rebellion). The fact that the chapter is haunted by its fallen heroes could be the unique trait for the 21st founding. The other possibility is to make this army a 'lost' crusade of the black templars, but that just seems such a common thing for marines already (especially with the resurgence of the Space Wolves 13th co.) that i'm really shying away from that.
I may just stick within the established fluff upon fully reading the black templars codex background section, interesting that no one really has figured out how many crusades are out there, so i may just make a somewhat themed crusade. Though i'm not sure how the black templars would react if their emperor's champion was a ghostly apparition.
So long as you dont break any rules, such as using librarains in a black templars army, you have full priviage to use any story line you want. There are many chapters in the imperium, some more famous then others, the choice is yours.
As far as army lists go, the black templars are pretty awful. Id use trait marines, or if you like CC, blood angles or space wolves. (but triat marines offer the most freedom)
For a minute there I was thinking he was talking about the blood angels, black rage anyone.Originally Posted by We Are Legion
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The Ghostly Image could be the librarian power thats summens a psychic beast to defeat the enemy.(forgot the name) You could say that the Librarians use these manifests to bolster their marines courage and faith in the Emperor
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Here's my 2 cents on this.
Maybe if you answered this question for yourself you will be able to properly decide on the next logical course of action to take in regards to your DIY chapter. Do you wish to play a space marine army decked in black power armor with the look of medieval crusading knights with the traits and limitations of Codex BT but are not BT or do wish to play something that lokks like BT with custom designed traits as in Codex SM?
The reason I ask this is because of your fluff which involves two things which BT violently abhor. Remember the Witch, The Mutant and the Heretic? The fluff involving emotions stimulating marines (similiar to black rage in a way), limited un-manifested psychic powers (a witch with powers unused) and a ghostly apparition leading with EC traits leading a horde of loyal marines doesn't go down very well I'm afraid. It's a very interesting fluff though, just needs a little adjustments. Good luck in your quest! Maybe you can post the results of your findings later for interested parties to see.
ps. Maybe you can say that the prayers of the battle brothers on the eve of a great event (battle of 750 points or more?) will invoke the summoning of an avatar, who will then randomly take possession of one of the assembled brothers to lead them in glorious battle. At least he's still flesh and blood (so your opponent knows he can still try and kill him), still possess an aura of other-worldlyness (is there such a word?) and be skilled as the EC stats-wise.
Last edited by Chapel; April 5th, 2006 at 03:16.