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Ok. I was fortunate to get into this game cause I got some great friends with more cash flow then myself and they've been generous enough to spread the love. I had one buddy who changed from SM's to IG so he threw the extra models my way as well. Currently I have
-5 man fast attack with jump packs bp's+_swords
-tactical squad box
-scout squad box
-20 marines with bolters
-Lander Raider with 2 lascannons
My one friend plays Space Wolves which are great in close combat so I was going to go with something different and try an build an Iron Hands army that is more of a shooter. After finding out about the new trait system versus the old IH rules and not having the funds to drop on new models such as dreads which IH's can take full advantage of i'm thinking of changing up before I paint another model. So looking at the above list of what I have available to me, does anyone have any suggestions? I also considered making up my own chapter but my buddies keep telling me they will suck and to just take one with a codex.
I still like the theme of the Iron Hands and was looking forward to the Medusa V campaign figuring their army would play a large role, but any help in this matter would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by rodgambit; April 6th, 2006 at 04:10.
Play what you want to play.
If you want to enter tournements or play at a shop where a lot of the people there are 'what you see is what you get' then you're kind of in a bind. If you're goofing off with some friends then you can sub units around for each other and pick up what units/vehicles you want once you know you'll actually use it. You have a good start for a Space Marine force, could use a little more variety but it's a solid start.
Building your own chapter can be very fun. And it can also give you opponent fits when you do things that most other people can't. The trait sustem doesn't make your force better or worse then a codex chapter, it makes it different.
In my case I made a do-it-yourself chapter right off the bat since I knew that everyone and their grandma played the big 4 (Space Wolves, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels). I made my own, called them the Star Dragons and gave them No Remorse, No Respite and Take the Fight to Them. As a drawback I took Eye to Eye.
What that means is that my chapter is much more geared for fighting hand to hand against other armies then most other chapters. The only army I try to avoid at all costs in hand to hand is Tyranids. I have yet to play orcs (none around where I live) but I somehow think that they might fall into the same category as Deamon Hunters, which is yes I can fight them in hand to hand, and if I tool up my guys it might almost be equal, but there are better ways to beat them.
As a penalty for the ability to run up and beat on just about anyone with a better then even chance of winning, I make it so that my Fast Attack options are a little more limited. I still have all of them but I have to be very careful in how they are used.
Codex chapters are not better then Trait chapters, they are different. They may have more flexibility in some areas then a trait chapter, but the traited chapter will have options and abilities that they either can't match or would cost an exhorbant amount of points to match. Feel free to play with the traits and find a set that matches what you want YOUR chapter to be. If you want to play Iron Hands, play Iron Hands. If you want something close but different look at the traits and see what kind of combos you like in there.
All the traits are good, it just depends on how you use them and what kind of flavor you want your chapter to have.
May your aim be true, and your targets plentiful.
unfortunately, you're not going to get a really good army out of what you hvae, however with a few bits orders you should be able to come up with something pretty decent. If the command squad is unassembled then get your hands on 6 jump packs, put together the command squad with BP and CCW and give them JP's. This will let you field a 10 man squad of assault marines without having to spend alot more, and lets you get rid of your bad command squad models(they just arent very useful). Finally put the last jump pack on the chaplain and a powerfist on one of the assault marines and you've got a very good assault/countere charge unit.
As for the tactical marines, you're going to want to get some plasma guns and missile launchers/lascannons. you get a plasma and a missile in the tac box, but you probably want 3-4 of each. These too can be bits ordered. Unfortunately you are going to have to spend a more serious amount of money to finish out your army. At this point you will need some landspeeder tornadoes and maybe some terminators. Its going to get expensove from here.
Take life seriously, its lethal.
Thanks for the responses so far. Today I was playing around with the demo of an army builder and was thinking of a theme for my army if I create my own chapter. I was considering going with the traits "See but don't be seen" and "Trust your battle brothers".
Most of my models have bolters so I thought having true grit and counter attack would be nice. I could combine that with adding infiltrate on all my units and set them up 18-24 inches from my opponent. I could use the bolters at 24" range and if I got into close combat i'd gain the extra attack from true grit but not charging so hopefully it'd make for a balanced attack/defense based on my opponent. I do have 4 missile launchers so I thought about a dev squad infiltrated in with those and then the rest bolters to take out heavy weapons. I really like the concept of scouts and snipers so I thought about 2 five man squads of scouts (4 snipers 1 heavy bolter) set up outside of my other bolter units so they could lay down some cover fire. I had a captain with a full command squad with 2 plasma guns and the rest bolters to take advantage of true grit as well.
Basically I had 2 scout units as troop choices, an HQ captain with command squad and 1 dev squad at about 797 total. I would like to incorporate some daemonhunters, maybe an assassin for some fluff and fun. I know I have to take an insquitor lord but not sure how I would best use him or his henchmen and then which assassin might be good to use. I like the vindicare for popping specific targets (my SW buddy likes to use special characters or wolf lords, ect..) my other buddy is imperial guard so maybe a CC assassin would work best against him then my other friend is necron. We are trying to stick to around 1000 points and I may have about $50 or so to spend mid month on some new pieces to build up a bit.
Codex Versus Trait Versus Pre-Existing Chapters hmm...
All fun stuff.
The Big 4 (Space Wolves/BLood angels/Black templars/Dark Angles) are all unique (Dark angels not so much with new SM codex lolm, sorry DA guys.) The Space wolves reward a cunning player who is apt and able at exposing his opponents weaknesses ot hsi own strengths with high points cost units. I would Rate Space Wolves as the Highest Difficulty of the variant chapters. Blood Angels are for the player that likes to charge head long into the enemy fire and come out the other side ready to rip oppenents apart in CC. A fun chapter with very unique rules itself. The Black Templars are interesting. They limit themselves choice wise, but allow the player to really engineer his army to be strong against what he hates, and go after it with a vengance via the Vows, or increase his own strneths. Dark angels..well lol, Unless yuor doing Raven Wing or Death Wing they arent that different other than being stubborn.
SO the thing is, if you KNOW wha tyou want... and Variant Chapter matches yuor tastes, then you will have Muchp fun with them.
Using the normal, standard force organization chart and rules you can build an army that is good at fighting everything,b ut not really great at any one overpowering aspect. You can field lots of Devestators and Land Speeder Tornados and be an oppressive shooty army. Or load out on assault troops and Drop pod Dreads and Termies and be an assaulty army. Thing is, the onyl weaknesses in this force are those you decide to give yourself.
Escaflowne said it perfectly. I play my army for the cunning ploy, deep battleplan, and heavy strategy. I use the infiltrators Trait, and am able to get my entire army 12-18 Inches away from the oppnent before the figth even starts. Good thing, I get my Big guns and assault un its ready to go in first. Bad Part, if I dont'g et first turn i can get swamped.
Bounce it around and play some before you paint (Despie what Pianting Nazi's say) To see what you like then decide. Take your time. And as for stuff to buy..
Space wolves Grey Hunters come with everyhting the tac squad does except the missilae launcher, and LOTS of cool heads/Armor.Bits as wella s two power weapons and a power fist. Get one of those to play with, and a few heavy weapons and you;ll be on your way,
Heh your a man after my own heart Rod, those are the same traits that I use (my main opponent uses alpha legion, and why should he have all the infiltrate fun?) So with that in mind this is what I suggest: Infiltrate only really plays a role if you have troops to do it with, and its just as expensive as a drop pod, if you inf a 10 man squad. It is cheaper to inf smaller squads though, so keep that in mind.
I've thought of going with lots of shooty, but thus far some part of it always falls apart. True Grit/Counter-Attack will give your already considerable SMurfs the balls they need to trump most opponents and it seems that I can do considerably well in most close combats, especially when i play with my Pfists properly. (Never keep them in the front lines).
What I think would work would be two dev squads (one with rockets from the tac squad boxes) and the other consisting of whatever flav you like (im using plasma cannons) Naturally both of these squads are gonna be target fire priority, but what I thought of instead of having Pfists in the dev squads (which is never a waste of points IMHO because they always seem to be a target for swarms and the such) is joining a jumper Chappie to the group while they remain out of combat, and disengage him solo to prevent the group from getting locked into close combat. I haven't tryed this yet, well, not with both dev squads in play, but I know it'll work decently enough. The key is making sure your using a bare-bones hero, which is never a bad idea anyways. I have 3 typhoons in a squadron to support this, as im using the Eye to Eye negative trait to support my two positive ones. I put that together with as many Pfist tac squads as i can, and because I like to let the enemy charge me (this way im never disappointed, and i get to use counter-attack which always pisses em off) and include a plas gun in each of those... it works sometimes better than others, but I prefer to have the infiltrationizing footsloggers than the mega-armour force.
ANYWAYS i apologize for the clumpy writing, I did edit it once to make it more legible, and I hope this helps. Understand that your bolter-toting, Sword-wielding, Infiltrating space marine maniacs are gonna be 21pts a model, and be reserved when infiltrating them so that you always get to shoot. Aside from that, I hope you the best!
(and trade that Landraider for something more useful heh)
Last edited by Goblin Ninja; April 6th, 2006 at 18:46.
Quick! Wile 'es ded!
I was under the impression that it was good to have large dev squads so that you can soak up wounds with the normal marines since you will be a priority target. I could maybe go with 1 five man squad with missiles and not infiltrate them since they have a 48" range then use a larger dev squad with multi-meltas and plasma to quickly get in on my buddies rhinos (Space wolves) and Leman Russ (IG). I think snipers are pretty neat and have nice range and by doing 2 small five man groups I meet my 2 troops choices. I was thinking heavy bolters to add 3 extra hits from 36" for cover fire but should I maybe swap those for missiles incase my dev squads are main targets and get hit early I still have something to take out bigger targets (my sw friend also fields a dread or two now i think).
I still want to look into fitting in an Inquistor Lord and assassin for fun and theme of creating my own chapter. Like I said i'm trying to work with about 1000 points atm and go from there.
I see powerfist being very popular but are they that much better then power weapons being they are so slow and always hit last?
Dont worry bout multi Meltas to waste rhino's lol. Your bolters in the back armor will kill it. THe multi Melta is a liability in a devestator squad. And Plasma Guns can do it easy too. Yeah, the Vinidicare assasin is REALLY cool for takingout those "Hidden" Powerfista n veteran sergeants. If you are doing your own chaopter, you can look in the Bits or Catalogue for SHoulder pads that have the Raised Metal designs for your emblem. As far as powerfists vs power weapons...
Power Weapons will let you hit first or in initiative order which if your first becaue of initiaive will take away some of the attacks coming back at you.
Power Fist will Kill wha tit hits, but have to hit at initiative 1.
They are if you're trying to take down a 'fex and all you have left are tac squads.Originally Posted by rodgambit
We all carry on,
When our brothers in arms are gone.
So raise your glass high
For tomorrow we die,
And return from the ashes you call.
Ok. I've played a few games with friends in the last few days to try and learn the rules better and one game with a buddy up at the shop against the owner. The owner and his bud played a combined 2k point army of black templars while we did a combined army of space wolves and my own DIY chapter. The battle overall was a draw but it was more of a learning game so I doubt the guy was trying to trounce us.
I've played with a few different traits but I still think i'd like to go with a codex chapter and get painting my models as they look like a rainbow brigade atm. I'm thinking of going with the Blood Angels since I have a large number of normal marines with bolters (30) and a 5 man scout box I still need to put together. I also have a chaplain and 5 jump pack guys with bp+cc which would be good to use as my death company to get started. We are generally gearing up for 1000 pt. battles as we are still learning the game and money can be an issue at times. I've read the forums but if anyone has any Blood Angel tips or suggestions feel free to post. I've also read their codex. I find in most games there is alot of assaulting and I did well today with the furious charge trait and like some of the blood angels fluff and special characters.