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Basically want to discuss what you put in YOUR line squads and why?
so far it seems to me when i have a lascannon in my line squads thats all i put with it, as the special weapon hardly gets to fire since the las-cannon is always trying to "reach out and touch someone or some tank "
if i have a missle launcher or h.bolter i ususally put a plasma in the squad. ( for only 2 pts more then a nady laucher u get +1 str and ap2, to me its worth it )
I usually include anti-infantry squads of h.bolters, but starting to think of doing that with my lascannons instead, keeping them far back ( 48" range is QUITE large ) and in cover. ther fore they will only be getting hit by the longest of fire power and will always have a cover save. and in doing this, start putting h.bolters and missle launchers in all my line squads with plasma. ( missle and plasma is the same cost of 1 lascanoon
For 2 points more Plasma guns are definatly the way to go and using lascannons in fire support squads is a good option, allowing you to concerntrate your firepower on tanks without sacrificing a whole squad's shots.
In my squads i usually use autocannons, you really need those increased shots when you have BS3. Also autocannons go well with the plasma gun, they can both be used to take out infantary and light tanks.
If you dont have autocannons i would suggest HB, mainly because of the extra hitting chance and it gives the squad one role (anti-infantry) and its better to do one role well, then two roles poorly as is the same case with the Lascannon teams.
And if you can cover the anti-tank side with the lascannons then you may need HB to thin out infantry.
Anyway...hope that helps
Last edited by Lord Marshal Graf Harazahn; April 11th, 2006 at 10:40.
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I only ever use plasma guns in line squads as my special weapon, my heavy weapon choices vary between heavy bolter, missile launcher and lascannon. I dont like the autocannon as a choice for a heavy weapon, despite it being many people's favourite. If I want the squad to have a chance at beating armour, I'll use a lascannon or, if points are tight, the missile launcher. If I want a high number of shots, I'll always go for the heavy bolter, the fact its the cheapest choice of the lot only makes it better. I also always use a lascannon heavy weapons squad as my 'core' anti tank squad, occasionally augmenting it with a missile launcher or second lascannon squad as well. These squads always take first shots at enemy armour on the board in order to 'free up' the heavy weapons in my line squads, hopefully destroying or at least stunning any dangerous armour on the board. If they miss, I use the heavy's in line squads as a fall back option, and if they hit, the heavy's in the line squads become bonus marine killers. Never forgetting that in the first couple of turns, generally only the heavy weapons are in range anyway.
So to sum up my preferences, if points were no issue:
Line squads: 60% Lascannon/Plasma
40% Heavy Bolter/Plasma
Supported by: 1-2 Lascannon Anti Tank Squads
Since points ARE an issue, I tend to go this way:
Line Squads: 40% Lascannon/Plasma
40% Heavy Bolter/Plasma
Supported by: 1 Lascannon Anti Tank Squad and a second AT squad of either LC's or ML's.
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Hmm. Ive been doing some thinking and what if u NOT included heavys in the squads but put them in seperate squads? Then with the light infantry doctrine you could field snipers for +5 points in each squad. What would be the pros and cons with a tactic like that?
The problem is that heavy weapons cost more when you put them in a dedicated heavy weapons squad. It also provides a much more tempting target for your enemy when you have a huge amount of fire. Also, you only have 3 wounds before you start to lose heavy weapons, while in a line squad you can have upto 9, although the squad is likely to run before this.
However, you are more likely to get a kill on a tank with the three lascannons or whatever all shooting it at once, and it does free up the possibility of giving special weapons to your squads and making them mobile. As for Light Infantry, I'm definitely not a fan of it, especially snipers. Equipping a squad with one seems to defeat of the point of them being light infantry in the first place.
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See, sniper rifles in 40k don't actually make sense. You would think that a sniper rifle is pretty much 1 shot one kill. Nope. The only way to effectively use sniper rifles is to use them in a dedicated squad ie ratlings or a sniper rifle equipped special weapon squad. 1 sniper rifle is, sadly, useless.Originally Posted by Keno
If you wanted to put the heavies in a seperate, dedicated squad, that's understandable. However, in my opinion that's putting all of your eggs in one basket. All it takes it a tank to get into range, and suddenly your fire support squad is wasted, and you're pretty much dead. I tend to throw my heavy weapons into my squads, because I think it a) draws fire to my squads, which is good because it's taking fire away from my more expensive units like tanks or allied seraphim and b) it puts a lot more guns on the field, that basically have 10 wounds. I like to load up on heavy weapons though, each of my line squads has one, and I still take fire support and anti-tank squads, in addition to tanks, because, let's face it, the guard is all about firepower. If you've got points left over, I'd recommend putting sharpshooters on at least dedicated anti-tank squads, but I throw it on my whole army.
As for which heavy weapon, I don't like the autocannon, because it seems like it's straddling the fence, it's not sure if it wants to be anti-tank or anti-infantry. There's a saying where I come from and it's that "sitting on the fence is the best way to tear your nuts off". I'm throwing that into this situation with the autocannon. I either take lascannons or heavy bolters. Both are the best us guard players have at what they do, so why not take advantage of that? For special weapons, I'm just getting into plasma guns now, though before I typically used grenade launchers because they're cheap. I don't use mortars at all, because I just hate how ineffective they are, which is a shame because they look and sound so cool.
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I didn't used to think so, but now I agree with Ubernyaw. I have Plasma in all of my line squads, unless I know I am playing Tau or Eldar. I like Missle Launchers and Plasma Cannons 50/50 in line squads unless I am playing a non-Meq army, or unless I have more Vet squads (which I always give Lascannnons). The missle launchers AP3, 48" range and versatiliy is worth the one shot vs. 3 from the Heavy Bolter.
In the last year or so there has been a paradigm shift in the types of Heavy weapons we play with IMO. I think overall you need 60 - 70% Lascannons in your army for optimal effectivness.
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DH: you dont find putting plas/las together, that the plas hardly ever gets to shoot? when i take las in line squads i find they are tank hunting 90% of the time therfore the plasma is wasted.
Well as a new guard player I went with what I had, so each squad has a grenade launcher and either a heavy bolter or lascannon. I look at the GL as being semi decent at light anti armor work and it can support me in the assault which I never want to do. But I had the models and hadn't socked enough money into grabbing 7 blisters of special weapons... when I do that I will be able to field a PG in each of my mech inf and command squads and maybe a melta or two in my command squads or pick up a special weapons squad.
Now can I give a special weapons squad attached to my HQ a ride in its chimera or do I need to purchase one for that squad as well? I am pretty sure I need to pick up another vehicle.
In my 1500pt army I have a sharpshooting heavy bolter support squad, half my line squads have heavy bolters, and half missile launchers. The HB squads have plasma to give some AT ability out to 24" range. For lascannons I have 3 armageddon sentinels. I've found that lascannon targets move around, so having mobile lascannons is the way to go to get better firing arcs.Originally Posted by Thunderer
My only question mark is my 3 vet squads. Each is maxed out with Melta (3 per squad) as I am so sick and tired of plasma getting hot. Last game 4 plasma gunners vaped in one turn due to gets hot - half of all my plasma. So i've switched to melta. Since vets infiltrate I can get to 18" of the enemy, and can move to fire melta. Yes, it is suicidal but the vet squads generally get assaulted first so it matters not. I can put one squad in a chimera, which I generally do anyway.
Sure melta is 12" range only, but its ability to add an extra D6 penetration is great, and with its ability to call glancing hits penetrating ones, means it effectively has a 9 strength!
Last game my Necron opponent deep struck his monolith and in the same turn suppressed fire from by sentinel and tank with lascannon on that flank. So I was 6-12" away from a freakin monolith, had 6 plasma guns waiting to fire at it, and no way to touch it with ANY guns on that flank. My other lascannons were out of line of sight, sitting with line squads - useless. It I had swapped plasma for melta the monolith would have faced 6 meltagun shots, all at BS 4 from my Vets. And I could have got penetrating hits with the melta guns.
So what do people think about melta if used en-mass in BS 4 infiltrating/chimera equipped squads?
Last edited by mtaylor; April 11th, 2006 at 20:26.