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I've loved the idea of fighting with the Grey Knights ever since they appeared in the final pages of Slaves to Darkness back in the late 1980's. They take the character and coolness of Space Marines and take it up to a whole new level.
Unfortunately, for about 10 years it was impractacle, if not impossible, to field a pure Grey Knight force. With the release of the first Codex Deamonhunters in 2003, the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Malleus could finally be fielded as a legitimate army choice in games of 40K.
Without a doubt, the army list drawn up in that volume was very well done, giving a force commander many options and opportunities, for both the radical or puritan player.
Unfortunately, as has been widely recognized, those that wish to play a 'pure' detachment of Grey Knights, with no incorporation of Inquisitors, Assassins, or Stormtroopers, will have very few options for essential Anti-tank (AV 13 and 14) firepower. The strength of Grey Knight ranged weapons is limited at a maximum of 6 within squads. The only options for higher strength weapons are with expensive Dreadnoughts or Land Raiders. The cost for these Heavy Support options severely limit the number that can purchased, and forces us to sacrifice Grey Knights in an army that is already sure to be far outnumbered.
Finally, after a considerable introduction I arrive at my point. For the next version of the Daemonhumter Codex, whenever it may be produced years from now, I propose a very simple fix: Make the Psycannon a Rending Weapon.
This simple adjustment would give the pure Grey Knight detachment commander the essential troop-based AT firepower he currently lacks. Not only that, it fixes the problem without causing a huge game imbalance, and does not even require new models. In fact, why wait for the next Codex, IMHO Games Workshop should slap this into a Chapter Approved in the next White Dwarf, and that would be that.
Thank you for your attention,
Your humble servent,
IF they made psycanons rending, that would be like being able to put assault cannons on grey knights, only 1 less shot. This I think is a little too good.
Et imperator Invocato Diabolus Daemonica Exorcist!
Initially, the recommendation may seem to be too powerful, but let me try to convince you otherwise:Originally Posted by JuliusGaiusCaesar
1. Against troops, the weapon will rend only on a to-hit roll of a 6. With 3 shots per round, each Psycannon is statiscally only likely to rend once every two turns, which isn't so often as to be unreasonable.
2. Against vehicles, the weapon first has to hit (which happens on a to-hit roll of 3+, or 2/3 of the time). Then the weapon will only rend on an AP roll of a 6. This means with 3 shots that the Psycannon is statiscally only likely to rend a vehicle once every three turns, or twice per game. Again, this isn't so often as to be completely unreasonable.
3. When attempting to bring down a vehicle with a Psycannon, all of the Storm Bolter shots from the other marines in the firing unit will be wasted (as they cannot possibly penetrate an AV greater than 10). As the Grey Knight forces will inevitably be outnumbered, this will cause the GK commander to have to make a tough choice (shoot more enemy troops, or take a crack at the enemy tank).
4. Finally, the GK player pays a premium for each Psycannon; at 25 points each, they are 5 points more than what a standard marine Terminator pays for the Assault Cannon that you were concerned about.
I hope this helped illuminate the issue,
I agree, and perhaps a (i'm dreaming here people!) new FAQ from GW indicating this will come out soon! I only wish, but agree.
The only thing I would change then is to take them away from PAGK troop and FAGK squads. Keep them to Terminators and Purgation squads.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
Psycannons are way too expensive, when you compare them with assault cannons wich got a huge boost last edition for the same point cost the AC comes out way ahead.
Its pretty clear they need to either lower the psycannons point costs or raise its efficiency.
I like the idea of purgation squads getting rending as thet would make them more tank hunty and purgs have 2 pay such a huge price anyway.
I agree 100%. The space marines, bless their way-too-popular hearts, got a major overhaul and benefit from things that really does unbalance the armies unfairly ever since the new SM codex came out. Which could all be fixed by a simple FAQ update! But I guess the DH aren't popular enough to warrant the attention required. You know, like just a few hours work to type up a FAQ, format it, and post it on their website.Originally Posted by Loranis
But yes, I agree that, in comparison to the new autocannon, a psycannon that has rending added to its statline isn't unbalanced at all. It still costs between 5 and 10 points more! And though a psycannon also ignores invulnerable saves -- which is admittedly quite awesome -- it has one fewer shot than the new assault cannon.
Man, a rending psycannon.... I'd have to revise my stance on PAGKs and psycannons!
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
Well, I would like it. It might be overpowered. But then again, consider the Marine and Chaos codices, and the ridiculous stuff they get.
There's an angel on my shoulder, in my hand a sword of gold.
You are quite right, people get annoyed by my psycannons, but they dont realize if they played raider or AV13 and 14 tanks, id be DEAD, so I agree, I think the psyannon should be 30 points and rending, because it does make grey knights less powerful, so I agree completely.
The gold grey knight man. These are hardy men who like cheese.
Ever thought of how cheese was found?:
`` I say sah, the milk in this barrel smells foul!``
``Oooohhh, give it a go!``
''Quack, damn you!''
-Jamie heinamen, Mythbusters.
I don't see the problem with the psycannon as it is. It's not meant to be an anti-tank weapon, just a very-effective anti-infantry weapon. Which it is. None of the infantry-GK are meant to be good against vehicles - if you want power armored infantry that can pop AV14, play SM.
The DH list as a whole is *loaded* with good anti-tank units & weapons. IST with special weapons. Inducted IG/SM - how many army lists let you freely take in units from so many other places? Orbital Strike. Land Raiders, GK LRs, GK LRCs, and GK Dreadnoughts. S6 on every GK model. Free Thunderhammers on GKT. Honestly, I've never had any issues popping enemy armor with a standard DH or GK list.
If the psycannon was rending, it'd be the single best weapon the Imperium has. They'd have to up the cost greatly - the ability to ignore invulnerable saves is really what drives the weapon's cost up now.