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Ok, let me get my initial complaint about the new tau out of the way.
Ok, now that that is out of the way . . . moving on . . .
I'm still a very new SM player and don't have an awful lot of different models to choose from. Mostly basic tactical squad types, some scouts, a single fast assault squad, enough MLs to field a devastator squad, and a predator annihilator (wishing more and more I'd gone with the destructor, but oh well).
The current army I'm going with has Trust Your Battle Brothers and See, But Don't Be Seen as their advantages and Eye To Eye as their major drawback.
I've played two battles versus a Tau opponent at 500 points each. He absolutely annihilated me both games. He was fielding 2 crisis suits the first game and 2 crisis suits plus a broadside the second game. I can't believe how affective those crisis suits are! And cheap, too!
Anyway, as I said, I'm still a fairly new player and sometimes not the best tactician, but I was thinking of getting another assault squad and putting something like this together.
- Reclusiarch (BP/PW) w/ jump pack to lead one of the assault squads (6 models including HQ).
- 6 Assault Squad SMs, the sarge with Termie Honors and a PW.
- 2 5-man combat squads w/ SBDBS
- 1 6-man tactical squad w/ 1 HB and all w/ SBDBS
- 1 5-man scout squad w/ CCW outfit
That takes me to about 746 points.
We usually play on a billiards table with considerable terrain around the board, which can benefit me, obviously, but also benefits the crisis suits. I figure I have two options:
1. Infiltrate everyone I can as close to his lines and still being in cover. Deep strike the Assault squads. Charge.
2. Infiltrate everyone I can about half way up the board and start working them forward. Start the Asault Squads at my deployment zone so that hopefully everyone reaches his lines at the same time. Charge.
Now, as you might be able to tell, my resources (both models and tactical) seem to be limited. Any critique of this strategy or a replacement strategy would be very well received. My buddy keeps telling me that Tau are really vulnerable in the right situations, but ya know, I have yet to get him in that situation . . .
500 points is a really small game. Your tau opponent benefits from this because his units have good weapons which can thin out your already small squads before you engage him in combat. I would try to consolodate your squads to make larger ones. If i were you i would infiltrate entrirely on one side near him and focus on killing one of his units at a time.
--Serve The Emperor Today-For Tomorow You May Be Dead--
My record since chapter reformation
vs necrons 1W-0L-D
vs chaos 1W-0L-0D
I need to play more!
The Tau do certainly have many strengths due to their use of blasphemous technology not blessed by the Omnissiah, but they do have weaknesses that loyal citizens of the Imperium can exploit.
I would consult the tactica compiled by our brethren in the Imperial Eagles.
Have you ever considered bikes? A bike squadron with melta guns and perhaps a veteran sergeant with a suitably choppy power weapon, or even power fist, can perform well. Their turbo-boost invulnerable save should protect them relatively well from the broadsides and crisis suits, and they can either shoot them up or assault them once they close the distance.
I also have to agree with TheAngelofDeath...smaller squads do give you flexibility, but their numbers are thinned more quickly. Larger squads will at least be more survivable.
Hope this helps.
"Wife! You are abusing that Leman Russ model!"
I wouldn't advise bikes for a new player, they are difficult to use, even with turbo boost.
Field a 10 man assault squad, (if youve only got 5, its worth the investment, plus you can use the powerfist in a tactical squad, or somewhere else later, when you get enough points to field 1000.
The point limit on your game is so low, that i wouldnt really recommend you use any traits.
(definatly never field two traits at once which cost points, that is, dont make your models 21 points, almost never is worth the expense)
Infiltrate could be helpful for getting into bolter range of his firewarriors.
At range warriors will beat you, but if you start able to shoot, then your armor gives you the edge, since he shouldnt be able to field any path finders in 500.
I suggest you field 2 tactical squads, with 2 Mls (or 2 lascannons if he fields broadsides normally) And 2 plasma guns. and 4 body guards each.
Thus giving you: 1x lascannon, 1x plasma gun, 4 bolters.
This squad works well in any point game, against basically any opponent, which is why is suggest you invest in them, if you dont currently have the models to create the unit.
Id avoid buy tanks, except dreadnoughts, and LSTs.
two tactical squads, and an assault squad led by chaplain will take you lose to 500, if youve got points left over, LST are excellent against tau infantry.
Close combat is your best bet against tau.
Bikes once you get your skills up, are ulimatly the key to consistanly beating tau.
Oh, and start making you, and your opponent play missions. Marines are vastly improved when the opponent must do something, thats because most armies are not as well rounded as marines. So no matter the mission, your marines will always be able to do it, while many armies, such as tau, really cant win recon, in 500, and have a difficult time with take and hold, and secure and control.
Anyway, good luck, if you have more problems, play blood angles
Last edited by ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar; May 10th, 2006 at 03:42.
Originally Posted by Battle-Brother Wags
Get an LST as quick as you can and watch the FW squads run off the table.
I agree with Forged on the infiltration. At this level of game, you need more warm bodies- ditch SBDBS. Plus, if you're a new player, SBDBS will probably get you in as much trouble as anything at the start. God knows, I lost probably five games using infiltrators before I figured out what was going on.
Also, it may just be my personal prefrence, but I'd lose the scouts and the SBDBS in favor of another tac squad. The more power armored marines on the table the better if you ask me.
Last edited by DEADMARSH; May 10th, 2006 at 04:32.
We all carry on,
When our brothers in arms are gone.
So raise your glass high
For tomorrow we die,
And return from the ashes you call.
Id just go for a nice and simple, nothing fancy list.
Captain equiped with the basics.
A small tactical squad like Forged described ( lascannon, plasma and about 4-5 normal marines).
Then maybe a tactical squad or scout squad.
Then the thing that will absolutely tear tau apart in 500 points....Land Speeder Tornados, equip them with Assault Cannons and Heavy Bolters. These little babies will annihilate fire warriors, and then after that they can go after anything else with the assault cannon. Id try and get 3 of them, and seeing as they are only 80 points, they are absolutely great!
Something like that would perform excellent against Tau in 500....but mostly due to thw Land Speeders, they really will serve you well!
1: get a full 10 man assult squad, and equip the sergeant with a powerfist. Let the chaplain join.
2: NEVER DEEP-STRIKE THEM.
3: avoid ANY form of vehicle against tau, except for land-speeder tornadoes and MAYBE dreadnoughts.
Basically a summary of what has been said before, but it's all true. Also; keep things cheap; the more marines you can field, the better. Swarm him with as many guys as you can, and beat him in close-combat.
"I have died a thousand deaths, and I will die a million more..."
If you can get those suits in combat you have more or less won the game. You might waste far to many models trying to get them though, maybe look at your mission objective and complete that instead and stay hidden from the suits?
The man of tomorrow is judged by his battle today.
The last two games were indeed 500 point games, and I only used infiltrate in the first one, which was a bad idea because my forces were split from the beginning. I took out one of his FW squads almost immediately (love the HB against Tau), but those two infiltrated units got obliterated within two turns because I'd never faced Tau before and had no idea that the crisis suits could jump, shoot, and jump again; nor did I know what kind of awesome weaponry they had. But oh well. To the point . . .
The army list that I posted above is for a 750 point game. Do most people agree I should combine the two assault squads into one of 10 men plus the reclusiarch?
Remember that we play on a billiards table . . . you would still recommend that i NOT infiltrate? Even with lots of terrain pieces, I lost about half of my force before I made it half way across the board in the last game.
Also, what would be my primary target? Get into close combat with the main bulk of the army and avoid the crisis suits if possible, only bothering with them if they present themselves as targets (which I dont' think would happen), or the reverse, do what it takes to get the crisis suits and ignore the FWs or drones?
Now it is probably way too late to apologize for being a whiner, but the new Tau seem amazing to me. In our first game (500 points), my opponent fielded probably twice as many troops as I did, including those stupid stealth field drone thingies that make it harder to even shoot at them or anyone else if you target them. Yeah, yeah, I hear it now: all you have to do is get them into CC . . . but when you've got upward of 25-30 strength 5 shots coming at you from 30" away, plus the crisis suits jumping around . . . man, thats rough.
So yeah, I'm a whiner :-D I'm just waiting for my opponent to read this and put his two cents in, lol.