Celestian Passion + Divine Guidance in CC - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    Celestian Passion + Divine Guidance in CC

    ... as used by Celestians...

    I just had to say that my Celestian Renaissance is really working out well lately.
    Twice now, I've been using a no-Vet Squad of Celestians in forward position.
    Keep in mind they cost only SIX points more than 10 SOBs + Vet Upgrade.

    I stick those suckers right out in the open to absorb enemy charges and stop the softer SOBs from getting charged. Inevitably, the Celestians entangle with Marines. The CC ratio of kills to losses was even. So in both cases, I eliminated (reduced to non-scoring) an enemy squad that cost more than mine.

    In CC, if the Celestians make a nice amount of CC hits, then I add Divine Guidance to it. Usually it kills 1 extra Marine. And when I get to below 7 girls, I use "The Passion," which also kills 1 extra Marine, and in effect, it saves a girl going into the next round.

    In one unlucky turn, 4 Celestians were swept after 2 turns in CC, but it didn't matter. I had already taken the Marine squad to below half, and the Marines were left standing the open where they were immediately mowed down by the SOBs. There were so many bolts going into so few Marines, I didn't even need Divine Guidance.

    I'm not saying this is the best way to approach Marines.

    But the fact that a no-Vet Celestian squad can be used with [at least] marginal success against Marines is very good news, because Celestians are even more valuable against non-power armor. No-Vet Celestian squads are an absolute bargain vs most hoarde-types.

    So this tells me that Celestians are really a must-take if you want to build an army to face all-comers. Hordes who are comfortable with failing armor saves can be a big problem for your standard adepta-sorritas. Celestians' superior CC statline helps close the gap you will face, vs hoards, and they can still break even vs MEQs.

    Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70

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  3. #2
    LO Oldie
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    well if you are intending for them to get into combat y not add a VSSw/ pwr wpn or eviscerator ?
    2000pts Orks 4-2-1

  4. #3
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    I think that Red uses them defensivly, so cheaper is better I guess. With no need to upgrade to VSS for Faith, and no gear on that character, as he pointed out, you are only paying 6 points extra for better I and WS stats!!! That is less then 0.5 for one point increase!!!

  5. #4
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    Yes Smoke, exactly.

    Celestians will never charge Marines. So if you know you're not going to charge, this kinda makes the Power Weapon Option a more expensive option, because it will never see the charge bonus.

    Instead, I'm just leaving them to slowly grind down in CC. We all know they are capable of doing this. And in every case, my no-VSS Celestians tied up (the more expensive) Marine squad for several rounds, reducing the Marine squad to non-scoring.

    And if the Celestians are fighting against non-MEQs, I don't need the power weapon as much, because I'm already fighting against weaker armor such as 4+, 5+ or 6+, so the power weapon is once again, less of a value. But the auto-hit on 3s, and the possibility of INit6 is a huge help.

    And I can opt to make a "Virtual Power Weapon" in CC with Divine Guidance.
    When?
    IF during the CC, I want to give the Celestians a little CC help,
    and
    IF the Celestians roll a nice "to Hit" roll in CC (few 1s or 2s show up), then I'll toss Divine Guidance on it before rolling "to Wound".

    (I essentially am using 1 act of faith to buy a power weapon that would have otherwise cost me 20 points).

    The critical difference is the fact that I can choose if I want to do this. Thus, by not spending the points, and retaining this choice, I am (slightly) better able to concentrate my forces where I need them. In addition, Celestians can face a wider variety of (non-MEQ) foes, at a reduced cost.

    Celestians are a very subtle unit. It took me a while to realize how to use them.

    I'm also thinking of standing an INquisitor with an INquisitorial Mandate behind the Cesestian squad. THe real value of that Mandate is that you can use it whenever you want. THerefore, if the Celestians "sponsor" a CC for a few rounds, they can give you enough time to charge in more sisters, and certainly some Seraphim, MANY of whom will get a +1 Attack.

    And you will find that the Str3 in CC is no longer an issue, because your squads are fighting like Orks during that turn, and your squads are still elligible for "stacking" other acts like HAND, or PASSION, or DG, onto the bonus CC attacks from the Mandate.

    Pretty awesome, and not too difficult to arrange.
    Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70

  6. #5
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    Yeah, I see the light :yes: Too bad that I painted my Celestians' cape with different color - must probably get another squad of sisters and start painting again...

  7. #6
    Member God octo's Avatar
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    Thats given me an idea. i dont think that my cannonesses retinue is going to pull its own weight, so i might turn them into a rhino bourne counter attack squad.

  8. #7
    Senior Member crucial's Avatar
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    i actually never thought of using DG only after you have rolled to wound... :wacko: i think i just figured that you HAD to use AoF before rolling to hit etc. its a pretty neat option.

    AoF rock!
    -SONS of RUSS member-

    Exiled until 5thED redo...

  9. #8
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crucial
    i actually never thought of using DG only after you have rolled to wound...
    But that is exactly how it is described in the codex :yes:

  10. #9
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    Divein GUidance SHOULD have been written to be used before attempting to hit.
    It makes no practial sense if you wait until the moment after rolling to hit, but before rolling to wound.

    But hey... I don't make the rules. I just work here.


    To Me, if Divine GUidance were real, it would go something like this
    (in a voice of John Cleese)
    *Sister shoots Her Bolter, & notices that the slug hits the enemy*
    *The slug, seeing that the enemy armor is better than 5+, pauses to wait and see if the Sister wants to Divinely Guide it*
    *The Sister Kneels down to pray for Divine Guidance*
    Sisters prays, "Please Emperor", Divinely Guide the bullet through his armor"
    *Emperor's secretary receives the request for Divine Guidance*
    *Emperor's secretary pages the Emperor in the Bahama Islands*
    *No answer from his pager*
    *Emperor's secretary re-pages, this time marking the message as urgent.*
    (After all, we don't want to keep the bullet waiting for too long)
    *Emperor hears the urgent page and decides to grant her request*
    *Emmperor calls the the slug, (which has been patiently waiting just outside the enemy's armor).
    *The Slug's cell phone rings. The slug picks up (on the first ring so as to minimizze the delay) and is told by the Emperor to penetrate the armor.*
    *The Slug acknowledges the orders and bids the Emperor have a great stay in the islands, and to check out a new Casino on the opposite side of the island, which is noted to have an exquisite view of a world-reknowned garden which is in full bloom this time of year. The two exchange farewell courtesies, the slug hangs up its cell phone, places it back into it's holder, and proceeds to penetrate the enemy armor, as directed.*
    *enemy takes a wound and promptly dies*
    Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70

  11. #10
    Member God octo's Avatar
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    oh my god, think of his phone bill, or the waiting list

    "emporar, we have a chainsword on line 3 that wants to be divinely guided, and a load of sisters that want your strength. Should i get them to phone you back?"

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