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OK all I play a mech and Armored Company guard force and am wondering how to tighten up my target selection criteria. So I am starting a Tank Targeting thread for gunnery suggestions.
What I am looking for is tactics and tips on what to fire at what for the basic range of tanks available to the AC or an IG pure force. My record is in my signature so I am slowly building up my knowledge base but I have no issue asking for help from some long time tankers.
So let me share what I typically do:
Exterminator command w/3 HB, TL ACs, PHS main task is to kill any LC toting sentinels and then go after infantry with heavy weapons. VSes IG I would go after support squads with tank killers to include DSing melta/PG squads of stormies or hardened vets. If with in 12-18" I move them to make it harder for HTH combat. Moving doesn't slow a tank like this down at all.
Basic Russ w/SHB, HLC and PHS. I have 2-4 of these and their job is to kill armor, dreadnoughts, carnifex's, and terminators. I typically fire the BC at juicy targets that I can auto kill and vehicles if my HBs can't penetrate. I like the LCs in the hull to preserve my ability to still injure big stuff if my BC gets a weapon destroyed.
Sentinel w/multilaser, improved comms, and HK missile Useful for non-alpha level missions. Sure a LC is better but I sometimes don't have the points and people ignore multilaser sents until they start killing light skinned vehicles (rhino, chimera, predators, etc...) the HK is useful for tougher stuff if you can luck out and hit with it. But most of the time I really rely on the improved comms. Great for bogging down weak nids and basic guards in HTH combat.
Recon or Transport Chimera w/TML, HHB, PHS, EA, PHS, Smoke Cheap "less of a threat" exterminator. I am still acquiring enough russ's for a pure AC but have used some chimeras to round out my points. I go after squads with HVY WPNs or any assault units in range. Other than that if transports they dump their stormies or fist squad on the objective and support the tanks by contributing to the wall of lead I send at the opponents forces each turn.
Now some of the targets I have had problems dealing with are below and I am looking for suggestions:
WInged Hive Tyrant
Chaos Bike Squads
Nid Warriors (assaulty not shooty (hard to outshoot an AC))
Horde Guard Armies with ablative meat shield protecting heavy weapons (only worry about missiles, ACs and LCs).
But to make this more useful to every other mech player what opponents unit types do you have issues with and how do you tackle them.
Additionally I have griffons and basilisk.
well, I'll go down your list and tell you what I think:
now, most noobs give their fexes 2+ armor saves, which is bad for the AC, because you don't have alot of ap2 guns. So, they best way for you to kill a fex is going to be as many shots as you can put, into it.
2. Hive Tyrant
Same as the fex, but if this guy has wings, put all fire into thim first.
3. Winged Tyrant
Now, winged tyrants can't have the 2+ armor save, so shoot all those hk missiles I know you have at it. Also, a battle cannon shell wouldn't be a bad idea, if you can catch him while he is still amid some gaunts.
4. chaos bikes squads
This die easy, just drop a pie plate into them. people need to stop clogging up their AC lists with stuff like conquerors and demolishers and stuff - the LR battle tanks is really the best. But, if they turbo boost, you may as well just shoot heavy bolters at them, you will get more wounds.
These faggots die easily. Just pump 'em full of heavy bolter lead. The more the merrier.
These guys die easily as well, as they don't get an armor save against heavy bolters.
7. Horde Guard Armies:
This is a toughy. We have a guy here that fields an all infantry guard army, with like 150 conscripts. I've never seen anyone kill all of his infantry. The key here, is going to be to only present your front armor, as that is what he will have the most trouble killing. With that many infantry, he will have a lot of range 48 guns. SO, stay away, and plop battle cannon shells on him. if you can, deploy so that you have intersecting lines of fire, that put you over 48 inches away from his fron line, by diagonal, so that you can shoot battle cannon, and he can't shoot lascannons back. One good thing you have against him is numbers. No matter if you scatter with the battle cannon, you will probably hit SOMETHING. just keep pluggin' away. Get all of your storm troopers out of Chimeras, and make your own firing line.
8. Demon Princes
Lascannons. That's it.
I don't play agains special characters. If there is one in a tournament, and I know about it before hand, I don't play. Special characters are stupid, and should never have been put into this game. But, if you must play one, the only good way to kill it is lascannons.
Now, as you noticed, you need a lot of lascannons to deal with big crap. The only way I have found to do that is to use sentinels with lascannons. anyone else find another wya?
TSg.t Zakarius Clay
142nd Cadian, Stationed Planet Skyfall B
4th Brigade, 1st Battalion, 1st Co.
'The Pathfinders', Drop Team - 6
Pssst.... give me kudos....
1. Carnis die in lascannons. They seem really strong but I play Tyranids against my friends AC and they really can be taken down fast. A russ with lascannon on the hull takes care of them. Pretty much any ap 2 weapon can kill them fast if you concentrate atleast 2 ap 2 weapons on them.
2. These wont have quite as much of a ranged blow and will be slow so I suggest killing the fex first.
3. These are really hard to deal with. Kill them first. Concentrate as much fire on them and you could probably kill them first or second turn. They can have 2+ save or a warp blast if they're tooled up for cc. Watch out for both as the save on that can make it a lot harder to kill and the blast is a strength 10 shot. Just be thankful nids can no longer have both powers.
4. Same as Jhagadurn.
5 and 6. Yes they die easily under heavy bolter fire but you need to realize a few things. The warriors can have wings or leaping and the stealers could infiltrate with a broodlord and have fleet. My suggestion is to hit them with a pie plate or two and clean up the rest with heavy bolters. Make sure you clean up the rest because they have synapse or ld 10 so they aren't just going to run off the board. Plus the warriors won't be instant killed.
7. Most don't have the best leadership unless they have a vox chain. Have one tank take out the leaders and start dropping pie plates on the rest. Conscripts will die and run. The others will have a better shot but concentrate on the leader squads and heavy or special weapon squads first. The rest aren't much of a threat to tanks.
8 and 9. Sorrey, don't have much experience with chaos.
Originally Posted by The Paint Monkey
Some quality input so far gents and I am in your debt. So with my 2 new Russ hulls I can see they will be configured exactly like my other two basic one... so HLC and SHB...
Is it worth my while to go with PHS on the tanks or just keep them naked with maybe extra armor?
I played against an elite horde IG army (2 platoons + 2-3 stormie drop squads + drop special weapon squads) the other day. 150 infantry started the battle and only 30 limped off the board on turn 6... But all I had was an imobilized Command Extermintor, basic russ and griffon left. But only total number of scoring units counted... he started with 23 and ended with 5-6 where as I started with 10 and ended with 1-2. But I deployed badly.
As to the Pintle mounted Heavy stubber....its kind of a toss up. I'd put them on demos and chimeras and thats about it.
the basic Leman Russ is rarely going to be firing something other than its battle cannon so I don't see much use for anything Pintle mounted on it. Yet on the other hand, I am an advocate of all LRs having Hull mounted LCs because even if the battle cannon gets destryoed, its still a threat against armor.
Fifth Edition Saved 40k for Me. I love my ratlings and my cover saves!
The only reason why and how a basic Russ should be a threat against armor is if it's outfitted with anti-tank rounds (which I highly recommend for Armored Companies). Standard Russes are designed for killing infantry, not tanks. If you can't give them AT rounds then there is no reason to change their designation. I will never, ever recommend hull lascannons, they're simply wasteful. If you've already got sponson heavy bolters, there is no reason whatsoever not to take a third one. Now if you prefer not to take sponsons, then its slightly more justifiable to take the hull lascannon. But 3-heavy bolter Russes are more effective and points efficient. In a regular Guard list, you use other units (mostly infantry) to tank hunt, not other tanks. In Armored Company lists you have some other options, though four Russes with AT rounds is quite effective. But even in an AC list I wouldn't take the lascannon because tank hunting isn't the Leman's real purpose, and it can't ever excel at that goal. Infantry killing though is something they can dominate at, and should be thus equipped to do so.
"I would listen to Sokhar. The man's a genius. Listen."~Lord Yossanrion"Thanks, Sokhar. There was some legitimately good advice in between the low-grade profanity, blaspheming and veiled insults."~Quick"Well thought, intelligently put, with a hint of sarcastic bastard!"~Diggum's Hammer
What AC is afraid of is high armour save infantry. It simply doesn't have tools to deal with them.
Battle Canon isn't a very good weapon against armoured infantry opponents. There is no doubt about its ability to do horrendous damage against massed low- or no-armour infantry, but single Terminator, Broadside or up-armoured Tyranid just walks among pie-plates like they weren't even there. And anti-tank rounds or Vanquisher canon rounds can't hit them. Vanquisher, that has 42% change to score effective hit to Tau Hammerhead, has only 9% change against Broadside. And Broadside carries enough weapons to turn Vanquisher into Swiss Cheese. Even Exterminator with awasome firepower has only about 30% change against a Broadside and that is 14 shots.
So infantry is the problem, but what about the solutions?
I have found following styles at least partially effective:
1) Lascanons are not just 'back-up'. They should be used as main weapon against heavily armoured/high save infantry/characters/monsters as they are better against them than Battle Canon.
Problem really is, that there usually is so few of them. Even if every tank in AC has one, that still usually means about 6 LCs and half of them miss. That is three hits and at least one of them is going to be saved. On monsterous creature that is two wounds and Tyrant can take it. That means two rounds of every tank firing at single creature. Not very good solution.
Of course increasing LCs will increase your changes. Putting them everywhere, like Armagedon patern Sentinels certainly helps, but also cuts into your other needed weapon platforms and is still only about 9-10 LCs, about the same as standard IG company, but they also have Multimeltas etc.
2) Go with 'More Lead' approach. Haven't tried this myself, but theoreticly it will work. In essense you have to force so many of those save rolls that opponent will fail on laws of average. This would mean lot of HBs and ACs, everything with high rate of fire and sponsons on every vehicle. Mathematically you could get slightly better changes against high-save enemies than with LC:ing everything.
3) My choice: Destroyed Tank Hunter. Not much of a tank hunter, but when single shot kill change against Tau Broadside is 56% and has blast templates without scatter, who cares?