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Thread: 1500 vs IG

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    1500 vs IG

    Hello again...

    Despite by belief (and everyone telling me how hard it would be) I can proudly say that although I was a complete newb I have been triumphant in my quest to destroy the Xenos and Daemon where I live and game...

    My Grey Knights have destroyed the Eldar (twice), the Ork (once), the Necrons (once), portions of the Black Legion (once) and some traitorous Impirial Guard...

    Unfortunately I have been all but annihilated by the Tyrannids and another IG player... the said IG player just has too many tanks for my GK to survive...

    I need some advice and if you have the time a proposed army list to go against him... he is one of the Veterna players in the club... last week while I was quelching a Speed Freak WAARGH he killed another IG player at 1500pts and only lost 9 men doing it... the week before he took down the Tau and the Necrons...

    Before you start proposing 11 squads of grey knights I will tell you what I acctually have so you can pick a proposed list from that...

    1 GM/BC (armed with psycannon)
    5 GK Terminators (1 armed with psycannon)

    26 Grey Knights (2 with psycannons) and 3 justicars

    8 Sisters of battle

    1 Inquisitor with lots and lots of henchmen

    2 Dreadnoughts

    1 Land Raider

    1 Callidus, 1 Eversor

    The list I ussually field has:

    Grand Master with Psycannon (master crafted nemesis and holocaust) along with 3-4 Terminators,

    a shooty Inquisitor (most often just with scourging to lower his cost) with a shooty retinue (either veterans with plasma guns or some heavy bolters) and also going for him being a Witch Hunter so he can have Chirurgeon and in general I give him many of the cheap henchmen to suck up wounds for the actually worthy guys...

    Eversor (gotta love the fact that he can have up to 10 power weapon attacks and explode if he dies)

    2 squads of 7 PAGK and Justicars (and 1 FAGK squad on 2000 point games)

    1 squad of 7 sisters and 1 superior (with flamers to kill troops and giving the superior needler and eviscerator)

    and 2 dreadnoughts (1 TLLC/ML the other AC/ML)...

    now the guy was so ****y that he told me to field 2000 if I wanted too but I will not do that as he will then say I won because of that...

    I dont field ISTs as I dont have rhinos/chimeras and they tended to die in round 1 or round 2 (as the enemy ussually preffered to lot the GK get closer so that shrouding would not waste his firing) and prefer strong assault 2 marching guys.

    The field will probably be a Cityfight landscape but without the cityfight rules...

    In general I tend to deepstrike the Termies + GM to save them the random shooting and walk everything to the enemy... the TLLC/ML dreadnought stays back and just lays cover fire againt vehicles while the AC/ML one is multipurpouse (goes for both units and tanks depending on their number)...

    I field Sisters as I like their abilities and are absolutely horrifying even if they dont manage to use their Faith Powers (two twin-linked flamers are just death on jetpacks) and are a relative cheap option for what they can do...


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  3. #2
    I am a free man! number6's Avatar
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    Against IG, I'd take a Callidus over an Eversor. She's very nearly as good as the Eversor at taking out troops as weak as IG. Plus you get the advantage of Word In Your Ear, which can wreak havoc on any army's carefully planned actical set-up. Plus you know you'll get the charge -- and a template attack! -- on whatever unit you choose when she shows up.

    Since you don't have a 2nd dread with TLLC/ML, I'd take the LR and I'd build a small, 5-model fire support PAGK squad, 2x psycannons. Stick 'em in cover and shoot. Good against troops and many of the IGs weaker tanks/transports.

    Take a 10-man PAGK squad as your other troops, and a 10-man FAGK squad and deep strike them!

    Take your psycannon-armed terminators, too, but don't bother with the GM; overkill for IG.

    If you can, build a standard shooty DH inquisitor and retinue: inquisitor w/psycannon, 2x HB servitor, 1x plasma cannon, 2x sage. (You definitely want the plasma cannon template!) If this guy doesn't have any deepstrking troopers, take an acolyte instead of a mystic. More acolytes are better, so take the unit as HQ if you have the points. (Iron Will is useful, too.) With this unit, your dreads, LR, and fire support GKs, you can easily give any IG player a run for his/her money with shooting, and you've still got superior CC power in the form of 2 full GK squads and your GKTs. You don't want a WH Inquisitor here. They're better suited for CC than shooting, and you've got GKs to fill that role, so fill 'em out for fire support duty. If you're short on points, just put the inquisitor w/psycannon near the fire support GKs, giving you 3 psycannons in your firebase.

    Unless your ISTs have a transport, I'd leave them at home. Take sisters only if, after all of the above, your out of fire support and GK models AND have points left over. You've only got 8 SoB, and in such small numbers you should have a Rhino for them to ride in.
    Last edited by number6; June 18th, 2006 at 06:21.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

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    IG Tank heavy is really tough for GKs. It is the army I personally fear the most. All that AV14 is tough to penetrate with our plethora of S6 weapons.

    I would make sure I would have - Dreads with TLLC/ML, Stormies in a Rhino with two Melta Guns, and vs IG I would actually Deep Strike FAGK with Psycannons to pop rear armour.

    Take your Landraider, it may be your best bet!
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

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    The sisters of battle are seraphim... sorry for the confusion... hence the low number... 7 seraphim and 1 seraphim superior...

    But it sounds quite good anyway the way you proposed it... do you think I should give the deepstriking justicar meltas for the overall effectiveness in case he comes accross a tank when they land?

    Also I understand that the GM is indeed overkill but heck... he has 3 wounds which can make him survive more than the BC who only has 1 wound...

    I mean most of the times the GM survives the battle even if everything else dies... (thats how I won my 1 game against Impirial... one last dash against a Leman Russ with the GM packing meltabombs... he was my last surviving model)...

    And I can tool the second dreadnought for TLLC/ML but is it worth it? I mean there is a high possibility of it dieing if he considers it a threat... and do I really need 4 twinlinked lascannons against IG? (2 for the land raider and 1 for each dread)...

    Also... should the psycannon heavy gk team have lots of gk as well? cause in the devastator tactica it says that for every heavy you should have 1 normal but that makes it too expensive a unit... I fear that just 5 of them will die very soon and not win their points back...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcona
    The sisters of battle are seraphim... sorry for the confusion... hence the low number... 7 seraphim and 1 seraphim superior...
    Well, that changes everything! Seraphim are definitely worth consideration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcona
    But it sounds quite good anyway the way you proposed it... do you think I should give the deepstriking justicar meltas for the overall effectiveness in case he comes accross a tank when they land?
    Only if you have points to spare. All GKs can take out AV 12 and lower, and I wouldn't want to send my expensive GK squads against stronger tanks if only one among them has a chance of hitting it. Waste of a turn of their potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcona
    Also I understand that the GM is indeed overkill but heck... he has 3 wounds which can make him survive more than the BC who only has 1 wound...

    I mean most of the times the GM survives the battle even if everything else dies... (thats how I won my 1 game against Impirial... one last dash against a Leman Russ with the GM packing meltabombs... he was my last surviving model)...
    Think about it this way. For the points difference between the two, you can get two more termies or almost 4 more GKs! Since you're going against an enemy with lots of high STR shots, your GM can be instakilled if you're not careful. But who cares if your BC does? He's only got one wound. But more importantly, you've spread around the risk of getting shot apart and have more models/attacks to lay down the pain on him. I'd definitely take the BC over the GM in this case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcona
    And I can tool the second dreadnought for TLLC/ML but is it worth it? I mean there is a high possibility of it dieing if he considers it a threat... and do I really need 4 twinlinked lascannons against IG? (2 for the land raider and 1 for each dread)...
    DEFINITELY worth it. You WANT him to consider your dread another serious risk. Those are shots that won't be targeting your other unitsl, possibly even your other dread or land raider if things go well for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcona
    Also... should the psycannon heavy gk team have lots of gk as well? cause in the devastator tactica it says that for every heavy you should have 1 normal but that makes it too expensive a unit... I fear that just 5 of them will die very soon and not win their points back...
    Ignore the Devastator tactica for GKs. The issues between them aren't the same. The idea behind the minimal GK unit with 2 psycannons was to form a firebase that, hopefully, would draw the ire of your opponent. Make him waste shots trying to take it out. An opponent with troops that weak can't usually igore 6 STR 6 shots per turn. Nor, if he's got lots of AV 12, can he ignore them. Besides, it's what you've got!
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

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    Okay just to recap...

    I tried to add in the land raider but the points will not work that way... so I went with the 2 TLLC/ML dreads...

    I will try and post the list later on the list forum but just wanted to see if what I have down is good enought...


    BC+psycannon + 3-4 Termies

    Inq Lord + psycannon + sages + acolytes + 3 warriors with HBs and PC

    2 x Justicar + 14 GKs

    Seraphim Superior + Eviscerator + 6 x sisters with flamers (especially usefull since we are playing in a city like environment, with any luck they can reach without taking a single shot if I land them behind building every round)

    2 x dread TLLC/ML + armor (no point in smokes as I will be firing every round with 48 inches range and if he gets first round it wont matter anyway...

    1 x callidus assassin.

    The list was about 1550 points so I do need to make adjustments... I just fear that the Inq Lord squad is too weak and will be torn apart... I think I should add a couple of familiars just to suck ine extra wounds but I am not sure what to take out... GK squads are already low powered...

    any ideas?

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    the Inquisitor should be fine considering that people tend to focus on shiny power armored uber-marines over some human and his pets. And if you lose the inquisitor don't forget about the PAGK, which you can use to similar effect.

    First off, consider the holocaust power which, in theory, should be devastating to IG if you can get in range.

    If you're facing tank heavy, consider adding meltas to some justicars.

    Now if only I could decide what to take out:sleep:

    Either way remember the shroding, it has the potintial to really save your hide.
    "Heresy is like a garden weed, it won't stop feeding until you... BURN THE WHOLE DAMN GARDEN WITH A FLAMER, BURN IT, BURN IT TO HELL!!!!!" "Is there a wittle puppy in the garden? ITS A DAEMON! BURN IT!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcona
    The list was about 1550 points so I do need to make adjustments... I just fear that the Inq Lord squad is too weak and will be torn apart... I think I should add a couple of familiars just to suck ine extra wounds but I am not sure what to take out... GK squads are already low powered...
    If you've got a retinue that's 6 models or less and you're hurting for points, move them down to Elites instead of HQ. Saves you 25 pts right there. Don't worry about them getting ripped apart. Inquisitor squads, even if you tool them up for CC, just aren't tough enough to survive an assault, so don't even bother trying to make them survive. If you're worried about them dying from shooting, make sure they're in cover. Besides, any shots at this squad are shots not hitting your other, much tougher units, so that's also OK. The problem with using familiars as cheap wounds is that their armour save won't be part of the majority, so you'll have wasted points because your first sets of wounds would have to be distributed among your retinue. Extra wounds should always come in the form of acolytes kitted out with storm shields or carapace armour, which makes them part of the majority save.

    You've got 8 models in your GK squads, which is obviously not as good as having 10, but 8 is OK. If you manage to scrounge points, then getting more GKs is one of the first things to do, but otherwise don't worry too badly about your numbers there.

    As for Seraphim, you're not buying flamers for all 6 are you? You can only have 2 sets of hand flamers. Hopefully, you've accidentally wasted points there. You can get away with just a power weapon on the vet superior rather than an eviscerator, save points there. It's what I use myself. 7 Seraphim seem a little thin to me; I'm more worried about that than I am about units of GKs that have 8 models. If you can't get an 8th seraphim model, consider dropping all of them, filling out your GK squads, and adding a 3rd dreadnought with AC/DCCW. Admittedly, however, Seraphim are really powerful when there's cover to bounce around.

    You may want to consider switching one or more dreads to the AC/DCCW set up. It will depend completely on the density of your city terrain. If it's dense, and long sightlines are rare, then the AC is a better choice for you because (a) it's cheaper, yet can still bust armor (if not quite as easily), and (b) you can then also use your dreads to support assaults.
    ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
    RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

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