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  1. #1
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    Inititive 1 or 10?

    I was playing a game recently where my Seraphim charged into a squad that was in cover, because the squad was Night Lords I desided to use Hand of the Emperor and we came on an interesting situation. The Hand of the Emperor says you strike at I1, but the Frags say strike at I10. I checked the FAQ and it said nothing, and the only special situation that Frags don't help in is with Power Fists. Because Hand of the Emperor is not a power fist like ability we ruled out that clause in the rules.

    Eventually we just left it to the Dice Gods (which I thankfully won, it's amazing what Strength 5 does when you don't strike last), but now I bring this question to these forums. Is there an answer to this situation? My gaming group and I would really like to know.

    Thank you all for your time.


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    Son of LO Plague_00's Avatar
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    the first part of the assault phase is you charge then ya use grenades then you roll for the power so yes you get ini 10 but then wehen you use the power it would fall back to ini 1
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    Member IATFP's Avatar
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    Well technically, Hand of the Emperor and Hammerhand and any other strength doubling ability causes you to strike at I1 because it works similiar to a powerfist, but less mechanical and more supernatural. And the I1 thing isn't really that bad of a drawback if you manage to roll decently.
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    Plague_00: No where does it say it works like that, while the ordering may work that way, that is simply the physical order things move in. Both rules are in affect through out the entire assault phase.

    IATFP: Hand of the Emperor does not double the strength of the user of the ability, like Hammerhand does (which by the way, atcually does not get taken down to I1, it works in Inititive order.) So, I'm afraid that doesn't really answer my question.

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    Son of LO Plague_00's Avatar
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    there is no clear definition but by tuerms of game fairness or commonsense my way works best if ya want it to work the other way then whatever you do that but don't expect much in the way of sportsmanship
    "take my love, take my land, take me to where i cannot stand, i don't care i'm still free you can't take the sky from meee" ;- firefly

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    Back in action! Lord Yossanrion's Avatar
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    Well,
    Frag's let you strike in I order when assaulting into cover so you'd not strike at I10.

    You'd strike last.

    Hope that helps.
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    Plague_00: I don't expect it to work one way or the other until an FAQ comes out for it, but, simply, I just leave it up to the dice because this particular situation does not have a clear answer, both rules are direct opposates with no overriding rules about it.

    Lord Yossanrion: Atcually, the specific wording is: "Models armed with frag grenades that are charging enemy in or behind cover fight with Initiative 10, so they strike blows simultaneously wiith the defender." So I'm afraid it doesn't really help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Yossanrion
    Well,
    Frag's let you strike in I order when assaulting into cover so you'd not strike at I10.

    You'd strike last.

    Hope that helps.
    correction...

    Frag grenades make you I10 so you strike simultaneously.

    Plasma grenades negate the I10 for being in cover and instead use normal initiative's.
    Last edited by gen.nehring; June 26th, 2006 at 22:58.
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    Back in action! Lord Yossanrion's Avatar
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    Ahhhh, curses.

    Please disregard my advice.

    I'd still say you strike last, as the frags work out, then the faith points.

    Or maybe I'm just wrong. :cry:
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  11. #10
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    The rules as written (RAW) could dictate that I10 is used.
    But the RAW could more easily tell us that I1 is used.

    Why?
    Because the Grenade is thrown before hitting.
    "... exploding frag grenades will drive opponents further under cover for a few prescious moments, allowing the attackers to close in unmolested."
    So the Grenades allow the "Closing in" at I10.

    So the Seraphim are fully I10 while closing in.
    Then they enact "Hand", "before rolling to hit", at which point they become I1.

    It seems to me most likely that tossing the Frags comes before any part of the "To Hit" resolution. "Hand" can be thought of more of part of the "Hit" than the "Closing In".
    It seems a illogical to first enact 'Hand', then declare the use of Frags.

    I wouldn't respect a player for insisting upon this idea.
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