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Ok, as this seems to be a recent topic in the SM forum, I'm going to create a thread that deals with all the usual questions people new to Space Marines ask.
So, what can you, the members, do?
Well, if here you can post a run down of each major chapter (by that I mean BA, SW, DA, Raven Guard, Iron Hands) with thier advantages, and disadvantages.
Then post what traits and general units that you may think are rubbish/good.
I'll collect them all, and then sticky them in a nice new thread, for the new SM players.
I'll start a Dark Angels rundown. The DA veterans can add to this where they see fit.
The Dark Angels tend to be a shooty army. They were exactly designed to be like that. They will never fall back due to shooting. Therefore it is unnecessary to place stubborn and veteran Sergeants in every squad. Here are some of the advantages.
Cheap Terminator Armor
Ravenwing-jink save and skilled rider
Damn near impossible to move them by the enemy
However there are disadvantages
Not really intended for CC
Will fall back after cc if not stubborn- squads close to the board edge are dusted if engaged.
Characters tend to be expensive
That's the basics of DA. There are a bunch of subtleties that I can't think of right now.
well, i guess ill try to do the BA...Vets add whenever
blood Angels are a very CC oreinted army (even though they cant have CCWs) mainly because they all have Furious Charge on all their guys(+1S and I when they charge). they are also reliant upon transports for their troops.
all your BAs start out with the Furious charge vet skill at no point cost
their transports use overcharged engines
they can disembark and assault if they move less than 18 inches (if i read it right...)
Death COmpany is their nasty for their CC guys
but they also have disadavntages:
no BA may take a different or another vet skill at all.
Transports cost more than usual.
if you roll bad overcharging your engines then you could immoblize, even destroy the transport (if i read it right...)
DC costs A BUNCH OF POINTS to add on. +110 points to the chaplain to be correct.
you could use valuable men to the DC when rolling for it (Sarges w/ PFs, Hvy wepns, Assault Guys, etc.)
thats my run-down of the BAs...
Ok.Originally Posted by Dark_Angels_MasterWell, remember that intractable doesn't work for assault so it would be worthwhile to give it to an assault sergeant or drop pod assault tactical squad.The Dark Angels tend to be a shooty army. They were exactly designed to be like that. They will never fall back due to shooting. Therefore it is unnecessary to place stubborn and veteran Sergeants in every squad.It's not cheap terminator armour. It's 15 less points than the SM termy armour but you've already paid for terminator honours so it's the same price.Pros
Cheap Terminator Armory
Regular terminators are too expensive right now but this will be fixed.I disagree. Assault deathwing can pack a serious punch in CC witht he help of a cup of retribution, and there's nothing a nilla SM army can do that a DA army can't for assault.Not really intended for CC
So dark angels are good for a few assault units like a drop podding tactical squad and some devastators to stay there no matter what.
I'll do teh traitiness. Starting with my own just out of familiarity.
TRUST YOUR BATTLE BROTHERS:
This trait is the most universally applicable of all the trait advantages, as it can be used by Any squad type apart from Scouts or Terminators.
This trait may look like it's an offensive one, but it's not. While you may gain another attack, you will NOT get the charge bonus from using it with a Bolter.
To use this trait properly you must never assault with the squad (unless it's assault Marines), but wait for them to do so to you. Let's get mathematical here: Assault squad charges normal Tac squad. At full strength (no upgrades) the Assault marines have 30 attacks against the Tacticals' 10. With True Grit & Counter-attack this is equalised to 20 attacks each. With the added bonus of you gaining terrain anyway.
Typically you'll want to put squads upgraded in this manner up close where the assaulting is done, so if you want to upgrade troops, only take the assault weapons avaliable to the squad. Never Heavy weapons. If you give this power to your Devs, they will be able to fend off assault much better than before.
HEED THE WISDOM OF THE ANCIENTS:
This one's easy. Every Dreadnaught you have can be Venerable, and you can field up to 6. While it may look dodgy, the fear factor of 6 romper-stomping living corpses in giant shells of steel is immense. Also, it allows your armies to have a bit more flexibility. If you want a Terminator squad and 2 Veteran squads, as we sometimes do), you can still field a walker vehicle. And sometimes a Dreadnaught can make all the difference.
It's used best with 2 or more Dreadnaughts working together close to each other. They're both venerable and have a skill. One could be close range, with a Multi-melta and Powerfist. The other might have a Lascannon and Missile Launcher. The Melta-equipped one (being naturally adept at vehicle destruction with that melta) would be better off with furious charge so it can hit earlier, while the other would do well to have Tank Hunters.
This is fun! Wheee!
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
The biggest misstep with beginners is a desire to expand in different directions too quickly without a core force, you see...
Your basic tactical squad is the backbone of a marine army, but all too often beginners will take two squads of five in their army and move on to the "cooler" stuff. Even the biggest, baddest unit in the codex, the Land Raider is little more than an infantry support weapon (albeit a big one). My advice is to start strong with two 10 man tactical squads. Ideally both squads should have a heavy and/or special weapon or a rhino to get stuck in quickly. This way they establish at least a basic understanding of what the army is all about and the flexibility that only tactical squads can offer.
Just my two cents on something I find important for all marine players.
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009
I agree. Never be without a strong Troops backbone.
There is a system made up by somebody here (I forget who), but it makes sure you get your nuch needed troops.
It's based on how many troops you have. The more troops choces you have, the more of the terrible trinity you may have. Terrible Trinity is Elites, Fast attack, & Heavy support.
You MUST have 2 and an HQ. So.
That's what you should try to go by. At least then you have a good balanced force. And if you just try to get 6 5 man tactical squads, that's still 30 Marines. Good enough.
- Not legal
- 1 HQ, 1 of each Terrible Trinity
- 1 HQ, 2 of each Terrible Trinity
- 2 HQ, 2 of each Terrible Trinity
- 2 HQ, 6 Terrible Trinity in total (you may take up to 3 in one to sacrifice number in another)
- Full Chart.
EDIT: Another trait.
Honour your Wargear:
This traid does to your Devastator squad what Heed the wisdom does to your Dreadnaughts. You may take them as either Elites or heavy attack. If taken as elites they MUST have Tank Hunters or Infiltrate.
There are 3 really effective ways to do this one:
All of these squads' upgrades cost the same in total.
- 10 man squad, 4 Multi-meltas, Infiltrate. This must be the most evil way to do it. They start in range of a full power strike if they aren't seen. And in range anyway if not. 10 men ARE needed because being that close will make for a sought after target. It has the advantage of destroying any vehicle you decide to start near on your 1st turn if you go 1st, and forcing them to move to see you if you start 2nd. Needless to say, never place them in the open if you don't get to go 1st. And you have no real need to hide if you do. There are 3 effects this deployment does at the same time. They walk on eggshells to stay outside a 24" radius with some things, dive in stupidly and kill bolter Marines with others, and the rest die futily. Any squad which poses a threat to this squad is doomed if attention is diverted; which IT MUST NOT BE AT ANY COST unless they are the tactically best target in range. This works best with 2 squads just in range of each other. The fear doubles as does the unhospitable area.
- 8 man squad, 4 Missile Launchers, Tank Hunters. This is the favourite. 15pt cheaper Lascannons which can fire S5 blast radii if needed. All there is to it.
- 8-10 man squad, 2 Heavy Bolters, 2 Plasma Cannons, Tank Hunters. This variant will lend some powerful effects. At 36" you gain extreme power, with 6 non-rending Assault Cannon shots and 2 blast radius kill-non-monsterous-creature-and-wound-everything blasts that ignore armour. Despite the Plasma Cannons' heavy prie, the Heavy Bolters lighten it up. This is perhaps the best mix there is for infantry.
This trait works well with 2 others. They are Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients and Purity Above All. The 3rd option is the only one which really needs the effects of the latter, but the 1st certainly does benefit.
With HtWotA, using your elites choices to be skilled Devastators and the Heavy support to be the Dreadnaughts can be an ease to your tension. Also you could use 2 Dreads and make them both Venerable, as the trait allows.
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; June 28th, 2006 at 18:06.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
One of the specialized Space Marine close combat army. The entire army has a skill known as Righteous Zeal. This skill allows them to make a leadership test, and advance towards the nearest enemy (like a massacre consolidation in CC) whenever they take losses due to shooting.
All BT armies must take an Emperor's Champion in armies of 750 or more. The EC brings a high strength powersword, and one of four vows you can pay for that effect your entire army. (I'd list them but I'm working off memory, and my codex isn't handy)
Black Templars have no Veteran Sergeants, in fact, they don't have Sgts PERIOD. Nor do they have a scout company. Their veterans are moved on to a unit known as the Sword Bretheren. A highly specialized elite unit that may take heavy weapons, power weapons, and the skills of Infiltrate, and/or Furious Charge.
Their scout company is instead known as neophytes. As their troops are known as initiates. Initiates are responsible for the safety and training of the neophytes before they can become full fledged initiate brothers. Therefore a normal troop squad of BTs can boast an impressive 20 men. 10 initiates and 10 neophytes. However you must always have an equal or greater number of initiates to begin with. No 10 neophyte 5 initiate squads...sorry.
Most important, and less known by non BTs is the fact that they may take a Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport. For all other Chapters, this mighty tank/transport takes up a heavy slot. BTs invented the Crusader, hence the name, and use it to it's fullest potential.
And finally. All Black Templars are FEARLESS in an assault/CC. Therefore they never fall back, and never run until the last man is destroyed or they win.
Great work guys! Keep it coming.
Perhaps someone could do a little treatise on the various HQ choices?
A little run down on what we need, to keep it fresh:
- What Traits are good and not so good
- Short Treatise on each major chapter (including Raven Guard, Iron Hands, even Imperial Fists)
- Short Treatise on HQ choices for SM (First choice, and secondary)
- Any general advice for begginers
- Any myths that need dispelling (Veteran squad all with Terminator Honours are uber good for example. )
Anything on anyone of these from anyone is welcome.
Last edited by Lord Yossanrion; June 29th, 2006 at 02:04.