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After recently searching 'Tau' in the space marine section and army list section I was surprised to find that not once had they been mentioned in any individual post.
very spooky if I may say so myself.
So I come to you veteran commanders at LO to bless the people with your divine knowledge and shed light on tactics against the ever-expanding Tau empire.
Basically, I have an upcoming 1200 point battle against Tau. My vanilla Ultramarines vs. the tau of an unknown paint scheme (mainly metal and plastic).
I'm making my ist and don't know whether to choose a librarian or a commander. I don't have the models to do the fear of the darkness technique.
So I'll either have a solitary master standing back, transferring his ld. to the army or I'll send in a tooled up librarian with SOTEW and a command squad with a powerfisted sergeant and a plasmagun.
which choice would be better, I'm leaning towards the master so I can have as many points to spare for my basic marines and terminators etc.
If you can bother to help, please give me your evaluation of the following units against tau!
any help would be appreciated on the ways in which the tau empire is overthrown.
feel free to post any tactics that you use against the tau as well.
Termies- anything of value in Tau moves fast enough to avoid you and the rapid firing plasmas make quick work of a squad, don't bother.
Dread- Really slow and a railgun shot tears through these guys like tissue paper, not a good idea
Whirlwind- Always a good choice, it'll wound basic firewarriors on a 2+ with no armor save and it can devastate kroot or vespid formations. *At 85 pts, always a good choice*
Land SPeeder- Depends on type, but as a general rule, the whole Tau list is S5 so I'd say pass on anything that's AV10. Tornado with AC/HB could be good, but you wont have many opportunities to use it b4 it gets shot down.
Assault squads- You didn't mention them, but they are your best bet against Tau. They are marines, so naturally Tau have trouble killing them in sufficient quantities. Additionally, their extra movement means you can avoid things that usually devastate marines and chose down and kill the crisis teams whose movement generally keeps them safe from assault. Throw in a hidden power fist, and you're good to go. *highly reccoment taking two ten man squads of these guys*
Devastators- Again, not mentioned, but another good bet. Most marine tanks die quickly against Tau, so you'll have plenty of heavy slots free. Devastators have the best chance of killing Tau tanks which are some of the most insufferably resilient in the game next to eldar. Additionally, they're marines like stated earlier. The only problem is that these guys draw alot of fire, so be sure to max out dev squads *highly reccomend*
Tactical Squads- Hey, lets face it, your basic troopers can beat the bejesus outta firewarriors and even crisis teams in a fair fight. Tau don't have any power weapons and are notably short on AP3-or-better, so basic grunts are actually your best choice against Tau. *Take as many as you have*
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009
Since I'm a BT player I can't help you with the libbie question.Originally Posted by Elric101
Termies are not worth it because when your tanks are destroyed(should be in turn 2) the HH and BS will start targetting your termies. Ignoring your save and leaving you with a 5+ inv. save. Also He can pump enough pulse rifle shots in your termies that when combined with the HH and the BS they will go down. On the other hand if he lacks AP1-2 then they might be worth it as a mobile firebase to support your advancing assault marines or to defend the assault marine's flank. But you play a 1200 points game so I would leave them at home and get more tac. marines.
A dread is OK as long as you deep-strike it and keep it away from the rail guns and fire-knifes. Use the drop pod to block your rear and granting him no LOS to your dread. Give your dread a HF, extra armour and he will do fine messing up his line for at least one turn. Just don't expect it to really make it in CC. He won't survie the turn after your deep striked him.
Whirlwind is realy good in killing firewarriors and kroot. Keep him cheap, so no upgrades, and use a 10-men squad in a circle around your whirlwind because he will be most likely to DS a suits next to that Whirlwind. If you make a circle around your whirlwind than it will be too dangerous to DS him or he will put his suit too far away from your whirlwind and then his fusion blaster will lose alot of it's potential.
Land speeder are a must against any amry because of the large amount of shot they can pump out. Just remember to use them as single squads because otherwise they would be too difficult to hide and be shot down. Pulse rifles are S5 so will relativly easily penetrate your armour. I would go suit hunting because the rending and 4S6 and 3S5 shots are painfull. Just keep them behind your own lines and use them in the same way as you do with your termies. Mobile firebases and if you play objectives keep them away from anything but suits unless you have no other chance. LS are great at conquering or conquesting that objective you have laid beside you the whole game.
Don't underestimate Kroot because he can put them in large squads and can dish out 2S4 WS4 attacks per model. I would target these with your whirlwind or shoot them to dead.
I don't know if he uses Vespids but these insect can really hurt a squad of marines. Take them out before they get the change to shoot you.
The key to win from Tau is CC and you should go marines heavy to counter your casualties when you advance. Keep an eye on your assault marines and make sure he can't target them or at least kill 2 per turn. Give them 2 flamers and a PF. Flamers are really good at killing Kroot and weaking a firewarrior squad. The PF is for his suits.
DonĀ“t mess with the dicegod
Ok, where to start.
I didn't mention assault marines since I have none in my model collection (used to, but gave them to a friend who was new).so they're out of the question.
The devestator squads now, I have two missile launchers, one lascannon and one hv. bolter. So I could make a tank-hunting squad, two krak missile and one lascannon shot per turn at BS4 is nothing to laugh about. The problem is, what do I do if he sends in his 'Love wolves' aka stealth suits or the like. But would that combination work well (lascannon, hv.bolter and two m'launchers).
I could put the hv. bolter into one of the line squads but that would reduce my mobility a fair bit
of course, I could alwas leave it out of the list all together.
I'll post a list soon in the army list section, so check it out there.
By the way, I've never played the new tau before, so what units should I look out for . In a test run with the old rules I had exactly twenty marines with boltguns in 300 points and he had 400 points of tau (handicap) and two twelve man firewarrior squads with an assortment of rifles and carbines killed a grand total of 2 marines by the time I reached close combat.
Was this a freak dice accident or are firewarriors a little weak when facing marines. Are there any marine killing units that will cut through my power armour.
please, in the words of Johnny five "need more input"
If you want to use the dev. leave out the HB and go tank hunting with 2 missile launchers and 1 lascannon. They will do there job quite good.
Just make sure you kill his tanks/skimmers, They are priority 1 in this game. Give your squad melta guns just in case of.
In CC nobody can really hurt you because Tau doesn't have PW or PF. Try to include as many marines as you can because they will win the day for you, especially against tau.
1. HH and other tanks. Hamerhead have priority over other vehicles.
3. Kroot and vespids
I put the Firewarriors last because they won't inflict much damage when you are in CC. His Vespids will be in front of his basic line. So take them down when advancing.
don't take a HB in your squads because you want to have mobility. give them assault weapons instead. Flamers might come in handy if you have some points spare.
Give a list of what you have so we can adjust our tips to what you have.
DonĀ“t mess with the dicegod
That was no freak accident, the Tau's low BS and small number of high AP weapons makes them incredibly vulnerable to MEQ armies. This was only marginally improved in the new codex. If your opponent breaks out sniper teams, I'd suggest gunning them down as fast as possible. They can kill marines from a good distance and force alot of pinning checks. Vespid can be devastating depending on how many are used, but outside of smacking them with the whirlwind, there isn't much you can do to stop them. The fly, have fleet, and re-roll dangerous terrain. They go across the board pretty quick to head off a marine squad. They also have a high initiative value of 5 and short ranged weapons for marine killing. If you ever get them in a strait fight, their lack of armor (5+) will usually cause them to lose.
The new markerlight rules could hurt if your opponent uses them as they increase the poor BS of firewarrior teams, or alternatively, could be used to reduce cover saves, give negative modifiers for pinning, or preform other equally unpleasant acts. Beware pathfinder teams.
Crisis suits can be annoying, but unless they get in close, will never even come close to earning their points back against a MEQ army. If he's packing Fusion or plasma weaponry, eliminate them, otherwise, they're just a mild distraction.
Hammerheads are the reason why you should never field any tank against Tau unless you are eldar. The railgun can effecticely obilterate any tank in the game with the greatest of ease. Another feature is the railgun's ability to fire submunitions. The sub shot uses an ordinance template and will wound marines on 2's. It may not go through your armor, but you'll be making alot more saves than you want to. The biggest problem with railheads is that they are 13 armor skimmers with an ability to force you to re-roll immobilised results, so you can expect to dump alot of rounds into one and not do any lasting damage.
Last edited by Mastershake; June 29th, 2006 at 12:50.
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009
Ok, thanks for all the flow of new info. " I smell a nice pot of reputation handouts brewing down under"
The tau player I'm versing just had his birthday and I know what his got.
This is what I have-
Librarian in power armour with bolt pistol
capatain with bolt pistol/power weapon
Venerable dreadnought conversion (adjustable, magnetised weapon fits)
Terminator squad of 5 with one asslt. cannon
25 marines w' boltguns
2 converted meltaguns
2 missile launchers
1 hv. bolter
2 bolt pistol/chainsword segeants
1 vet. sergeant w' powerfist/bolt pistol
1 land speeder
1 Land speeder tornado (hv. bolter + asslt.cannon)
Whirlwind w' vengeance missiles
(Devestators compiled from troop section)
The Tau player just had his birthday and got a crapload of new stuff. Below is what I can remember.
special character Ethereal (can't remember the name)
4 or 5 battlesuits
3 'love wolves' aka stealth suits
a ton of drones
1 sky ray
and here's the big one
two whole hammerheads
he won't necessarily be using both but they still scare me a bit.
oh, almost forgot, he has around 10 pathfinders w' railguns.
The embarrasing thing is that I've been collecting three times as long as him.
anyway, good advice, keep it coming. I'll post my draft army list in the army list section, see ya.
Ok, my army list is up in the army list section so have a look.
Last edited by Lord Yossanrion; June 29th, 2006 at 14:37.
Ok, a few thoughts...
As to what to take, I would avoid taking the Dread or Speeders because they will be toast after taking thier first shot, or before if you lose the first turn. Remember, the railgun has a 72" range and should be able to move 12" and fire, so there will be little place to hide. Though you may consider deep striking both and hope they arrive on turn 3+ after you have eliminated his Hammerheads.
The Whirlwind looks good if there is ample cover, target his Firewarriors and Kroot.
Terminators I would leave at home, by the time you get into range the volume of fire will whittle you down. Again, you could consider deep striking to take out a vehicle, if it they aren't located near his army core.
Take your plasma gun, it should help with the suits. I wouldn't pay the points for the meltas because he won't let you get that close. Unless you consider a command squad with 2 of them to drop pod next to his suits or hammerhead. Take the BP and chainsword sgts. leave the powerfist, you shouldn't have the opportunity to assault his suits or vehicles and using the powerfist on the Firewarriors will just make a mess and be a waste of points.
Definately take the Dev squad, 2 missles and lascannon plus a few meat shields. Focus on vehicles then suits. Don't discount the heavy bolter, a 10 man marine squad should be able to win a battle of attrition against Firewarriors. You'll kill 2-3 a turn while losing 1 or 2. But in general, your tactic should be to advance every turn until in CC.
Take the Librarian for HQ, I'd take the power that fires across the battlefield hitting each unit (sorry forgot the name) or perhaps the vortex one, with the low I it could be effective.
Anyway hope it helps, let us know how the battle turns out.
I played a tau army the other day with 2 assault sqauds each with a chappy. The kid I was playing against was very ****y and rude to the other gamers in the store (I promise I don't normally play this way.) I also infiltrate 2 scout squads. I got into combat so fast against him that he didn't have a chance. If you really want to pound a tau army this is the way to do it. But you won't make many friends this way.
Then again, if your only opponents are the unsupervised game store kid, who needs friends?
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!