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  1. #1
    Senior Member Bladeweaver's Avatar
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    Toxic forest battle

    Hey guys, i got a battle with nurgle tommorrow in the toxic forest and i need help.
    Heres what i know

    Its 2000 pts and i got 1500pts so i got room for allies and doctrines
    I need to know what doctrines i i should take.
    the battlefield will be dense with jungle, and theres going to be an outpost in the middle.
    And heres the most grave of news...his HQ squad cost around 800pts.
    This demon must be slain but the there is no plan B if they get into CC. what should i do.


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  3. #2
    Staying out of trouble KOS-MOS's Avatar
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    The thing about nurgle is that they are T5 so lasguns need 6s to wound not that lasguns kill anything anyway

    His HQ is a massive point sick vs guard as here never kill enough models to get back his points, if hes coming to u witch it sounds like he will be doing then a leman russ Demolisher will work well here and may even kill him in one hit, maybe team it with a hellhound to cover the demo as it moves

    Aslo nurgle cant get any heavy weapons in his squads only plasma guns a such so your tanks sould be fine as far as firepower gos, take 2 lemans and one Demolisher and your have firepower that can blow away hole squads at a time and as they cost more then normal he wount
    have so many

    nurgle is aslo slow and can only get rhinos for his troops in a fast attck chioce so you may end up being faster then him if you take a armoured fist squad

    Lasty plasma guns and lascannons are the why to go as always when fighting marines and even better here as they cost more with the mark of nurgle

    nurgle has a hard time with tanks so take any armour you can and your have a easer time:yes:

    For doctrines close order drill and iron discipline to keep your men in the fight

    For allies some gery ninghts would be good for when there get to you as with there S6 attacks they are more then a match for most of his troops

    that sould help you own him
    Last edited by KOS-MOS; July 11th, 2006 at 23:00.
    "Hey sarge, this lasgun is heavy. I wish we had something lighter."

    FF7: ABOUT RANDOM BATTLES

  4. #3
    Member BannedInFrance's Avatar
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    How does he have 800pts in a single unit?

    Whatever it is, it'll have a hard time getting around in the jungle. You on the other hand, have the option of the jungle fighters doctrine. This will give you a solid advantage in terms of mobility, line of sight, and deployment. However, jungle fighter armies can't take lascannons, so you'd have to make do with missile launchers, meltas and plasma. Other doctrine's I'd be inclined to take would be Iron Discipline, Veterans, Special weapons squads, and maybe conscripts.

    I probably wouldn't bring a Russ into a jungle board; movement options will be limited and line of sight will be severely cut down. A demolisher might work though. Either way, remember to bring your rough terrain mod. A basilisk or two would be a good investment. Indirect fire is a great asset when your visibility is cut down. Normally I'd suggest a hellhound or heavy flamer chimera, but I'm not sure if they'd be effective vs CSM, especially death guard.

    And yeah, if he's going to use a greater daemon or daemon prince, you can make him regret it with a GK grand master with retinue. Expensive, yes, but it won't come close to 800pts unless you go overboard.
    707 Travalonian Armored Brigade

    If the tanks succeed, then victory follows.
    Heinz Guderian

  5. #4
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    hmm... sounds like a "good news/ bad news" deal to me

    good news:
    nurgle is rather slow. and is fairly expesive. meaning you'll get a lot of shooting time in on relativley few targets.

    Bad news: slow yes, but they still have T5 which means that lasguns are astoundingly even more inefective. and even the trusty heavy bolter will lose alot of effectivness.
    even though they r slow, the forest will probably provide a lot of cover.

    Bad news: holy minibars batman! thats one expensive hq! the only way i can think of coming that close to 800 points is a demonlord with everything on him gaurd by a huge bodygaurd of chosen terminators. T5 2+ save, 5+ invulnerable save in your way. top that with a great unclean one, and through all in a raider, or perhaps deepstrike it behind the gaurd lines and ouch.

    good news: lol i remeber when my bt friend tried to drop pod on my gaurd buddy. you know what a single earthshaker cannon did to his expensive assault terminator unit? of course you do... such an expesive sqaud can easily be shot down by a basilisk and some lascannons. you should be able to auto kill all the termies, maybe even the lord.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Bladeweaver's Avatar
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    88th Ragnarok Stone Legion
    Imperial Guard
    Current Total 1845
    Doctrines
    Close Order Drill
    jungle fighters
    sharpshooters
    Grenadiers
    Indepenent Commissars

    Doctrine list
    HQ Squad
    LT squad
    Vet Squad
    Raven Squad
    Rhino squad
    Viper squad
    6 squads
    doctrine combi 20pts
    Doctrine total cost-120pts


    HQ
    Command Squad-106pts
    Heroic Senoir Officer-70pts
    Plasma pistol-10pts
    Master Vox-20pts
    Guardsmen with Flamer-6pts


    Elites
    Veteren Squad-117pts
    7 Vets-56pts
    Vet Sarge-13pts
    Bolt pistol-1pts
    Power Weapon-5pts
    Plasma Rifle 10pts
    Meltagun-10pts
    Flamer-6pts

    Sniper Squad-99pts
    9 Snipers 99pts

    Commissar Demitri-60pts
    Basic-40pts
    plamsa pistol-10pts
    power axe-5pts
    carapace armor-5pts

    Commissar Zarick-80pts
    Basic-40
    Storm bolter-5
    Power Claw-20pts
    Reactor field-15pts



    Troops
    Infantry Platoon-304pts
    LT squad-66pts
    Junior Officer-40pts
    with Power Fist-20pts
    Flamer-6pts

    Rhino Squad-83pts
    Basic Costs-60pts
    Heavy Bolter-10pts
    Gernade Luancher-8pts
    Vox caster-5pts

    Raven Squad-88pts
    Basic Cost-60pts
    Missle Launcher-15pts
    Gernade Luancher-8pts
    Vox Caster-5pts

    Viper Squad-67pts
    Basic Cost-60pts
    Vet-6pts
    bolt pistol-1pts


    Kasrkin Squad-120pts
    Kasrkins x 10-100pts
    Vet-6pts
    Flamer-6pts
    Gernade Luancher-8pts


    Fast Attack
    Hellhound-120pts
    Basic-115pts
    Extra armor-5pts

    Allied Grey Knights with Teleporters-150pts
    4 grey knights-100pts
    1 judicator-50pts

    Sentinel Squadron Gamma-65pts
    Basic Sentinel x 1-35pts
    Autocannon-15pts
    Armored Crew Compartment-15pts

    Heavy Support
    Leman Russ Battle Tank-192pts
    Basic Cost-140pts
    Lascannon hull-15pts
    Heavy Bolter Sponsons-10pts
    Heavy Stubber-12pts
    Extra Armor-5pts
    Track Guards 10pts

    Basilisks Siege Tank-125pts
    Basic-100pts
    Indirect Fire-25pts

    Demolisher Asssult Tank-203pts
    Lascannon hull-15pts
    Plasma Cannon Sponsons-20pts
    Extra Armor-5pts
    Track Guards-10pts
    Smoke Luanchers-3pts

  7. #6
    Monkey Pirate Greenbeard The Ex-pirate's Avatar
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    honestly 800 points isn't All that high the most expensive lord and retiune i have ever taken with chaos is 1500 points for like 12 models... point sink yah... fun as hell you bet. Now i can give you advice from both ends of the spectum as I play guard and Chaos. ( Albiet my guard have never played chaos) Nurgle is a tricky army to play against. If most of the terrain, is forest he is going to have a great advatage due to you not being able to see him. He may not be packing much in the way of heavy weapons, but once he gets a single squad into combat your guardsmen are going to be having a very bad day ( Don't underestimate nurgles rot, its horribly effective vs armies like guard). If it were be playing as the Chaos army i would probally be using the command squad mainly as a living shield. While it will probally not make up its points on its own, it will help other squads make up their points by absorbing a large portion of your fire. The key for you is going to be your deployment, if hes smart about it he can deploy the command squad 12 inches away in the woods w/ move through cover.... so technichly he could get in to an assault with you on the first turn, by the 2nd hes got you where he wants you for sure. Oh yah... then there is always defilers... man if i were him i'd have bout oh two of em and a pred....
    Right so for allies Grey Knights are always a solid choice, and are honestly probally your best bet. They are shooty dead hard and all that jazz... plus will give you a nice way to blunt his assault. If you have the resources I would instead take two independent commisars with powerfists, and what ever elses tickles your fancy, and two conscript platoons. Thats like 500 ish points for two 50 wound powerfists. One of those plattoons will take down his command squad in a hurry. s. After that everything elses is basiclly sausce for the goose.
    Now that your list is posted.... um personally I aint a big fan of storm troopers, I think vets are a more solid elite choice, but thats just me. Now this could just be me but I don't really like how you got your command squads tooled. The name of the game is stopping them from getting in to combat, give your officers storm bolters and every guy in the command suqad not on vox/banner/ or heavy weapon duty plasma guns. The vets i would not give the jungle fighter ability and hook the buggers up with a lascannon. , and three plasma guns. Ratlings are OK but remeber they cost a doctine point. Remember that jungle figthers costs 10 points a squad so um yah... In a 1500 point game I always have at least 2 full platoons... granted its like 800 points but they pay for themselves very very quickly. Oh every guardsmen squad should have a missle launcher and a plasma gun. A single squad of storm troppers aint going to do you much vs nurgle your going to want like 2 min all hooked up with plasma guns.At the very least drop the armored crew compartment on the sentinal, that 15 points almost buys you two plasma guns or two missles. Oh yah give the tin can a las cannon too All tanks should ALWAYS ALWAY ALWAYS have both extra armor and smoke. A moving tanks w/o weapons still counts vor VPS and can contest quarters. If your playing on a jungle board give all your tanks ( cept bassie rough terrain modd and drop track guards, and the heavy stubber.
    Last edited by Greenbeard The Ex-pirate; July 12th, 2006 at 04:25.
    Rheagar fought nobly
    Rheagar fought valiantly
    Rheagar fought honorably
    And Rheagar died.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Bladeweaver's Avatar
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    ok this givve me some good some bad.
    Good things are that i can outrun and take free shots at my enemy, i can infatrate my army into the center outpost where hopfully ill be able to kill the predator(the only thing that can kill tanks) But 3 squads of 7 and 2 dreads not to mention the deamon prince will mussle my out of the base, but no worries. I can just run into the jungle and disappear. My Bassie and Demo can safley punish the enemy, while the grey knight teleport into position.

    Bad thing Infantry is still only good for pisssing off the Marines. Theres no really good way of killing the deamon prince. He still has a 300pt lead on me, although im confient in my tatics and my men

  9. #8
    Member BannedInFrance's Avatar
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    A few suggestions for your list, if I may. I'll try not to echo the good points greenbeard's already made. Oh, and I hate to be anal but you should remove the individual point values from your list. I've made the same mistake before and I'd hate to see you catch flak over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladeweaver
    88th Ragnarok Stone Legion
    Imperial Guard
    Current Total 1845
    Doctrines
    Close Order Drill
    jungle fighters
    sharpshooters
    Grenadiers
    Indepenent Commissars

    As it's been said, usually the best way to use Independant commisars is with conscript platoons. Lots of bodies can hide a power fist and even tie up that 800pt HQ for a turn or two. I understand you're working with what models you have, but if you're worried about close combat they're a very effective speed bump.

    Oh, and as for jungle fighters, it's a key doctrine for the board. Even without lascannons, it sounds like the worst youv'e got to worry about is a AV13 pred. Even then that's only really a threat to tanks, and it's mobility will be seriously hindered on this board. Keep in mind that with jungle fighters you can set up 8 inches into the jungle and shoot out from it, keeping safely out of sight from your opponent's shooting.


    Doctrine list
    HQ Squad
    LT squad
    Vet Squad
    Raven Squad
    Rhino squad
    Viper squad
    6 squads
    doctrine combi 20pts
    Doctrine total cost-120pts


    HQ
    Command Squad-106pts
    Heroic Senoir Officer
    Plasma pistol
    Master Vox
    Guardsmen with Flamer

    I'm really not a fan of flamers. Especially in a squad being used for leadership purposes, you'd want to keep them as far from the combat as possible. If you must have weapon extras in this squad, you could give the guardsman a plasma gun and the HSO could have a bolt pistol and power weapon for the same points you've got currently. You could also shave 5 points off the squad by making the HSO a JO with an Honorifica, as it doesn't look like you're using one in this list.


    Elites
    Veteren Squad-117pts
    7 Vets
    Vet Sarge
    Bolt pistol
    Power Weapon
    Plasma Rifle
    Meltagun
    Flamer

    The issue with this squad is that it's got no role. The flamer doesn't compliment the other two weapons, not to mention its got a shorter range than even the melta. Maybe you could rotate the flamer into a line squad you plan to sacrifice. Vet squads are generally used to take advantage of an opportunity for 3 bs4 plasmas or meltas.

    Sniper Squad-99pts
    9 Snipers 99pts

    Ratlings/Snipers are a great unit for dealing with monstrous creatures or greater daemons, but I can't shake the feeling that they're not going to live up to their potential in a crowded jungle board. Not to mention you don't have the ratling doctrine (although dropping COD wouldn't be a terrible loss). Still, I'd put another vet squad here.

    Commissar Demitri-60pts
    Basic
    plamsa pistol
    power axe
    carapace armor

    Commissar Zarick-80pts
    Basic
    Storm bolter
    Power Claw
    Reactor field

    My honest feeling on these guys is that they're 140 points that could be spent on another vet squad with plasma/ML. Without conscripts to lead, I just can't see commisars being effective.

    Troops
    Infantry Platoon-304pts
    LT squad
    Junior Officer
    with Power Fist
    Flamer

    I'm really not a fan of power fists (with the exception of the commisar/conscript combo). All they give you is a s6 attack, something that's much better rendered by a grey knight.

    Rhino Squad
    Basic Costs
    Heavy Bolter
    Gernade Luancher
    Vox caster

    Raven Squad
    Basic Cost
    Missle Launcher
    Gernade Luancher
    Vox Caster

    Viper Squad
    Basic Cost
    Vet
    bolt pistol

    I'll be the first to admit it, you've got balls to field a squad of guardsmen with just lasguns. I'd turn this into a remnant squad and add a special weapon with the points saved.

    Kasrkin Squad
    Kasrkins x 10
    Vet
    Flamer
    Gernade Luancher

    I'm not a big fan of giving flamers to grenadiers, or mixing weapons for that matter. Plasma would be great here.


    Fast Attack
    Hellhound-120pts
    Basic
    Extra armor

    Hellhounds are great in a jungle, but I'm not to sure of their capabilityies against death guard.

    Allied Grey Knights with Teleporters-150pts
    4 grey knights
    1 judicator

    Why, yes, Grey Knights are the sheezy. Although I'd love to see more bodies in this squad, and maybe a second one for good measure.

    Sentinel Squadron Gamma-65pts
    Basic Sentinel
    Autocannon
    Armored Crew Compartment

    I'd personally drop this for more GK's, at least get rid of armored crew compartment.

    Heavy Support
    Leman Russ Battle Tank-192pts
    Basic Cost
    Lascannon hull
    Heavy Bolter Sponsons
    Heavy Stubber
    Extra Armor
    Track Guards

    I don't like track guards. They eliminate the only damage result that will allow you to fire your battlecannon after taking the hit. I'm not diggin the heavy stubber either, as you won't be able to use it with the battlecannon, and you'll be wasting shots with any target for the lascannon. Besides, the Russ should be targeting the death guard marines anyway.

    Basilisks Siege Tank-125pts
    Basic
    Indirect Fire

    A good tank, and a solid unit for jungle boards. Maybe improved comms on this tank could help with the FAGK, especially if you get more of them.

    Demolisher Asssult Tank-203pts
    Lascannon hull
    Plasma Cannon Sponsons
    Extra Armor
    Track Guards
    Smoke Luancher

    Same notes as the regular russ.

    So yeah, my two cents basically. I know you're working with what you've got in terms of special weapons and models, but if its a friendly game maybe your opponent won't mind if you proxy a few models. All guardsmen look alike anyway...Good luck!
    Last edited by BannedInFrance; July 12th, 2006 at 07:43.
    707 Travalonian Armored Brigade

    If the tanks succeed, then victory follows.
    Heinz Guderian

  10. #9
    Senior Member MTG Guru's Avatar
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    The demolisher with plasma/lascannon set up is fine actually. All these weapons will actually threaten any demon prince if in range, as well as any deathguard in general. When the nurgle army closes in, then the demolisher cannon can start doing its thing. Dropping the track guards is pretty much a must, and I'd only take one of either smoke or extra armour unless you have lots of spare points in your list.

    I would however strongly advise against putting power fists on either officers, or independant commissars. If you want them to do anything in close combat, giving them a powerfist (or equivalent) is about the worst thing you can do. All you get is an expensive character that will die in its first combat before ever getting the opportunity to strike. Unless you expect to be facing tau.. then you might have a slim chance.. heh Read page 51 of the BGB regarding characters and assault and it should become clear to you.

    While I like your addition of GK's, there are a few things to remember with such a unit. Firstly, a 5 man squad wont really be enough. Ideally you want 8-10 GK's in a squad, if points are tight, 6 might be enough, but you will have to be very conservative in their battlefield application if you would want such a unit to earn its points back. Secondly, while GK's are definitely some tough hombre's, they wont be enough to take down a decently tooled daemon prince, and shouldn't be used in that role. Certainly not a squad of five... if you opponent takes a manreaper, as all good nurgle players should, you will have 5 very expensive and very dead GK's before you can say 'exterminatus'.

    Everything else you need has pretty much been said. I'll just reiterate the call for 'more plasma!', its just about the only weapon that will really put the pain onto deathguard armies reliably other than IG pie plates of doom. Definitely no flamers.. almost as useless as lasguns against the DG.
    What Guardsmen dont want to hear...
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  11. #10
    Member clwacdc's Avatar
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    Apparently he's already had the battle (he said he'd be having it on the 12th). I'd love to see how it went.
    Chuck Norris wouldn't stand a chance against Tana Umaga.

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