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I've noticed certain subjects being posted over- and over again so I figured: Why not make a collection of all thiese in one thread. What I'm talking about is: how do I fight <insert enemy faction>.
So why not collect all you folks thoughts and experiences in one thread. Here's what I'll do....you guys post stuff about fighting different armies in this thread and I'll round the ones that most use up in this first post?
Well, we need some more tactics written - there are still armies left. If you think that something is needed to be added to another tactica just write a post and I'll fix two links instead of one. We're also in great need of someone to write down tacticas for the legions and craftworlds!
Armies to fight against (just press the link to take you right to the tactica):
Chaos Space marines
1 ) You can't ever really know what a standard chaos player will field
2 ) If it's a CC army - like lot's of Khorne berzerkers and such - try to stay out of reach and shoot for as many rounds as possible, use Vindicators and devestators
3 ) In the case of Defilers - the indirect fire needs to be countered with fast mooving anti-tank units like bikes with meltaguns/multimeltas
4 ) Do not ever underestimate a DP
1 ) Don’t let them reach CC
2 ) Standard tactical squads can really work miracles when fighting dark eldar
3 ) Assault squads are great to field and counter attack with
4 ) Take out transports and Archaon with retinue as soon as possible
5 ) Whirlwinds are great
6 ) Watch out for Ravagers
7 ) Missile launchers vs talons will do a great job
8 ) Don’t let them reach CC again
1 ) Rush them with all you got
2 ) Use land speeders and assault squads
3 ) You can drop pod your army – then you end up really close to him
4 ) He lacks CC troops
5 ) He’s got the big guns – use cover when you can
6 ) Even if your army is shooty he’s shootier! Get into CC!
1 ) Space marine HQ's are lethal to Necrons when they enter cose combat, stay away from necron lords and aim to do as much damage to the warriors to force phase out.
2 ) 2+ saves are a pain for Necrons to stop, so a unit of terminators is a great investment.
3 ) Do not spread fire, pick one unit and shoot it until its all dead.
4 ) Do not assault piecemeal, hit with 3 or more squads at the same time.
5 ) Try and destroy the warriors to make phase out easier.
1 ) They have the numbers! Try refused flank
2 ) You can’t shoot them all down before they reach cc, have a couple of counter-charge units
3 ) Don’t ignore their shooting; rokkit launchas and zzzap guns can be really hard-hitting
4 ) Taking down the “spoilers” (fast units) is vital to your front-lines (you can’t shoot through CC)
5 ) Whirlwinds, Terminators, Dreadnoughts and standard bolter marines are great for killing the greenskins
- BA, DA, BT, SW or special trait armies
1 ) Don’t be intimidated by the guns – your guns are as scary as his!
2 ) Use fast units to get into cc and then advance with the rest of the army
3 ) Librarians are great to use – fury of the ancients and fear of the darkness!
4 ) Whirlwinds to pin him down
5 ) Use infiltrating melta infantry to take down tanks and the occasional battlesuit
6 ) Terminators! Tau don’t field that many AP2 guns
7 ) If he’s got much infantry – use heavy bolters or the like to just shoot him out
8 ) Kroot can be ignored, vespid shot down
9 ) Don’t field lightly armoured tanks’
10 ) Deepstriking!
1 ) Target priority - you can shoot through infantry units
2 ) Deployment - don't spread out your forces! Look at the terrain - where will they move?
3 ) Shooting - what to shoot at; bolters eat gaunts and even stealers...save the bigger guns for the bigger guys!
4 ) Taking out the synaps creatures first
1 ) Don’t run forward – the witch hunters can have a quite impressive arsenal of SM killer guns
2 ) Watch out for the nasty close combat squads (eg: inquisitors, assasins, penitents and arco flagellants) they can really butcher you in CC
3 ) Know how to counter assassins; if there are an inquisitor there will be an assassin!
4 ) Take long ranged weaponry – the witch hunters have few guns with range
Last edited by Kristofer; August 1st, 2006 at 06:09.
Were the Eldar just forgotten or is there a purpose in leaving them out?
And I think forces like "Chaos Space Marines" should be divided in further armies, as it is way easier to give advice against the Chaos army of a specific god.
Sorry for only criticizing instead of writing about tactics. No harm intended!
Oh - well...missed Eldar, as far as sub-forces of factions - just post the strategies and I'll sort them....
If you guys are into putting enough work into this thread, I don't mind pinning it up so that everyone can have a "One Stop Guide" to beating the most common opponents of Space Marines. Hell, we could even go into detail and cover the different Regiments/Craftworlds/Legions and stuff too!:yes:
All right, let's rock and roll
:realmad: = Screamo.
Guardsmen. The workhorse of the imperium. But the Space Marines are better.
Maybe individually but army to army, Guard has a signifcant advantage over Marines.
Typically, just about every guard list aside from armored company will outnumber the marines 2/1. Not very good. Due to these numbers, guard make a great attrition army. Simply sit back and shoot massed fire, you're likely to hit. This is why shooty armies such as Dark Angels have a terrible time against them. They can carry about half the weapons that the guard can. So what to do......hmmmmmm?
Get in the guardsmens face. The three basic units that will lay waste to any guard army are:
Land Speeder Tornados with Assault Cannon
Drop Podded Tactical Squad with massed bolters
Assault Squad with 2 plasma pistols
Plus as a bonus, Marines get better psykers.
Terminator Librarian with FOTD.
As soon as these units hit the table, your guard opponent should be sweating. If not, he's incredibly brave.
The basic strategy to play against guard is the rush. Utilize cover until your dropped tactical squads rapid fire the bejezus out of his command squad. Tearing out the heart like this will drop the guard to Ld 7, leaving them wide open for the psychic mayhem of the Librarian. And because most guard armies use the hedgehog or cornerhugging deployment, you're guaranteed to run a good chunk of his army off the board.
But that was just infantry. Now about the guards incredible tanks. Again utilize the Drop Pods and Land Speeders. You can drop tactical squads with a meltagun next to the tank and watch it turn to molten slag. Or use the rending of assault cannons to shred the armor. Bikes work here too. They can zip around to the back armor and destroy them easily. Expensive, and rather fragile, but when they finish the job, they'll have almost earned their points back.
Now, I'm not saying that the shooty units should be left in the box. They'll still have their uses. Conscripts led by a commissar is a Marines worst enemy. Those conscripts WILL bog you down, leaving the rest of his army to take the objective. This is where heavy bolters and full blank Tacs come in. If you focus all of your shooting on these megalithic beasts, a good chunk of that initial fifty should disappear in your .75 caliber bolts.
So, to sum it all up.
Get into his face and tear out the heart. After that, you can basically have your way with the Hammer of the Emperor.
To fight necrons a marine player needs to understand what Necrons strengths and weaknesses are.
Firstly Necrons are tough, damn tough, they can take huge amount of punishment from range so engaging in a firefight puts you at a disadvantage.
Secondly Necron warriors (who are the core of the army) are typically very slow, a necron player has to pay serious points to get them any sort of speed (be it using a veil of darkness for monolith).
Thirdly Necrons do not have difficulty with tanks or high toughness creatures (but since marines have nothing over T4 we need not worry about that). Due to the gauss nature of their weapons they can easily destroy a tank in one round of fire, so unless you take lots of vehicles (be it rhino rush or lots of predators) leave your tanks at home.
Right, we now know what they are good at, so what aren't necrons so good at?
The most obvious weakness necrons have is close combat, although tough and strong like marines necrons have very low initiative so they will strike after your marines 9 times out of 10 (they have a few units that strike at the same time as a marine and and 1 unit that is faster).
So to maximise damage close comabt is a sensible idea.
The key is getting into close comabt without taking too much damage, now this can be tricky since all necron weapons have a high rate of fire but they only have average strength. This means you will be taking lots of saves which is the best wa to get round power armour.
So, how does one make close combat? Firstly do not send a single squad, even if its a chaplain and assault squad they will lose because they can be taken down piecemeal, of you are going to assault, hit with 3 or more units at the same time, exploit their weakness by overwhelming them.
Now, what does one send into close comabt? The short answer is anything, since only the expensive lords and pariahs have power weapons / warscythes you will always be getting armours saves, thus getting units with 2+ saves into combat is fatal to a Necron player (this is where terminators excel).
Necrons do often teleport out of close combat (usually via a monolith) and rapid fire the unit that just attacked them, while this is powerful a decent size squad should be able to endure it, either way be prepared.
Right, thats close combat sorted, now what about shooting?
This is where you soften up necron units to make it easier for the assault units. necrons have very few power armour ignoring ranged weapons (namely the monolith's particle whip and heavy destroyers) and both cost a lot of points.
Blanket fire does not work, you aim to cause maximum damage on a unit by unit bsis, so turn all your firepowr onto one unit and don't stop unti lthey are all dead, otherwise you may find causing lasting damage very hard.
Plasma cannons are very useful, while they do not deny we'll be back (henceforth known as WB it does deny their armour (which is half the battle) and can cover lots of models. They are very useful if you have them, otherwise you can't go wrong with missiel launchers (who are better at taking down units outside of resurrection orb coverage).
Any unit withing the resurrection orb coverage will be very hard to keep dead, so you want to hit them with lots of multiple shot weaponry and / or weapons that deny armour (this is where plasma really excels).
It is also worth noting that necrons have only one ranged attack that can defeat terminator armour, this is mounted on the rarely taken heavy destroyers to using terminators gives necron players all kinds of trouble.
Terminators deserve special mention since they are positively built to take down necrons, they are nigh unkillable and will tear it up in close combat, so it does not really matter if you spend 200+ points on one unit.
Now, a lot of necron players take the monolith because it is a very powerful tank, it is nigh impossible to kill and can deep strike. To stop this beast you need to hit it with lots and lots of lascannon fire, due to its living armour rule you do not get extra penetration (i.e from melta or tank hunters) so it has to be hit with high strength weaponry.
I suggest lots of lascannon in small tactical squads, thats the cheapest way of dealing with it.
If it deep strikes you will need to worry about what it can bring though its portal and its particle whip. In such a circumstance try and maximise cover and aim to either hit the monolith itself with awesome amounts of fire or obliterate whatever comes out of the portal.
Do not worry about the C'tan, they are slow and cost a lot of points, a scout unit with sniper rifles should take one down easily and hitting it with a few lascannon shots wouldn't hurt. Do not try to take them in close comabt, they are very powerful and nothing space marines have stands a decent chance outside of powerfists (which cost a lot).
1) Space marine HQ's are lethal to Necrons when they enter cose combat, stay away from necron lords and aim to do as much damage to the warriors to force phase out.
2) 2+ saves are a pain for Necrons to stop, so a unit of terminators is a great investment.
3) Do not spread fire, pick one unit and shoot it until its all dead.
4) Do not assault piecemeal, hit with 3 or more squads at the same time.
5) Try and destroy the warriors to make phase out easier.
Thats it! Hopefully this rough guide will help you on your way to defeating the Necrontyr.
Last edited by The_Outsider; July 12th, 2006 at 22:09.
Okay, I've stuck this, but if the responses begin to die off, I'll let this thread go. So let's keep it going, shall we?:yes:
A lot of players are daunted by the Tau. As they said once before:This is nothing, while they're positioning (if they do) it still only fires once at 12". Do not allow yourself to be shaken by their superior range and firepower and you should be fine.Wow, 30" str5 gun as basic, COOL!
Generally the best thing to do is to be a bastard and take 2 Librarians, attached to another character's squad or not, no matter. One should be an Epistolary though. Take FotA for both & FotD for the Epistolary, make sure the Epi isn't a part of a squad at the start and give him a bike or Jump pack. The end result is two lines of death and pinning. A 4+ save isn't that good when you're wounded on a 2+ and takig up to 3 hits each time. Ethreals are fine, they allow re-rolls for Ld tests. Take them out 1st with at leat on line of FotA and force a Ld test for ALL Tau. When the Epi gets up close with his squad (GIVE him one then! Either Jump Packs, Bikes, or a Rhino/Razorback!) charge off the Fear. This will cause much disruption in the Tau ranks. They aren't that mobile when they want to shoot you to deter your advance. Pin them while you can (remember to keep a clear line to most of them) then make them run away. Running away will stop any lame-o Vespid you moved into range of, as well as any kroot or Battlesuits wielding Fusion blasters (sometimes). Leaving you free to be less molested than before. Then you charge the Tau with all your might when you all arrive. Never mind the Epi's death if you'e disrupted their battle formation (which you cvan with some skillful movement and the right application of Fear.
Other good units are the many-melta Infiltrators. Take some assaulty Vets and give them Infiltrate, Melta, Multi-melta, Vet serge with power sword & Meltabombs, & You'll be fine. They are able to lay the hurt on any vehicle, assault any infantry (for when that nasty railhead arrives), and generally show off. If you give them a Teleport Homer, you open up more painful prospects of a 10 man Terminator squad (Assault squads are Okay at this point as the Vets are more of a threat and MUST BE ELIMINATED!). They also have the added bonuses of thinning out enemy ranks and taking the spotlight.
TERMINATORS!!! Need I say more? They rule with their 4 rending shots... no, make that 8! Then you powerfist Battlesuits into oblivion if anything survives the 24 shots a 10 man squad can muster. Teleport homers on some Infiltrators (scouts & Vets, not Command Squads) makes them that little bit more dangerous.
With the Tau being a bit too T3 for their own good, anything S5 or higher will cause many wounds easy. The following weapons have what it takes to wound Tau on a 2+:
Quite a list, isn't it? Chances are you'll take at least 14 of these in a standard list without much thought (Termies, Assault Marines, 4 man Missile Devs, 3 LSTs).So, if they can outrange you, just find a way to close that range and overpower them. The only things we have that wound them on a 3+ or less are the Bolter series, Sniper rifles, & ****guns. But who uses Shotties anyway?
- Heavy Bolters (ignores their armour)
- Assault Cannon (ignores their armour, can rend all others'. Instant kills all but big suits)
- Autocannon (ignores their armour. Instant kills)
- Lascannon (ignores all armour. Instant kills)
- Heavy flamer (ignores their armour. Auto-hit)
- Meltagun (ignores all armour. Instant kills)
- Multi-Melta (ignores all armour. INstant kills)
- Krak Missiles (ignores XV8 & XV25 armour. Instant kills)
- Plasma pistol (ignores all armour. Instant Kills all but big suits)
- Plasma rifle (ignores all armour. Instant Kills all but big suits)
- Plasma Cannon (ignores all armour. Instant Kills all but big suits)
- Fury of the Ancients (pins. Hits up to 3 times)
- Typhoon Missile
- Demolisher (ignores all armour.Large blast)
- Vengeance Missile (ignores their armour. Large blast)
As we all know, the Tau are bum-buddies with the Kroot & Vespid. The two of them fill the missing roles of Melee and Anti-marines that the children of T'au are so inept at. Thing is, we're better at both those roles than the Tau 'specialists' are.
Kroot? Armed with a crappy Bolter wannabe which counts as two close combat weapons? Are you serioues? Thay get no save, upgraded to 6+ for the price of 3 Kroot. Wow. They like to huddle in cover where their 7+/6+ save is boosted to 4+/3+. Techniques I find are good for Kroot are to Assault them with some infiltrators or sic a Dread onto them. My personal favourite Dreadnaught is:
Venerable, your choice of skills, Powerfist, Extra Armour, Flamer.
If you use your infiltrators well, you'd be able to keep any dread killers at bay long enough for it to trundle up to the Kroot and flame them, ignoring cover saves and piercing their useless armour, then assaulting to keep from the spotlight of enemy guns. On the way, shoot at any vehicles you see with the Las. Twin-linked, fool! When the Dread is finished, send it through the cover to the enemy side and charge for all you're worth.
Against Vespid, think of them as Marines with really, REALLY bad armour. Even a bolt pistol will ignore their armour, so jump in and shoot them like crazy and sweep in for the assault. Just make sure to not get within 18" of them before their turn. Terminatos need not fear, Vespid are less than hopeless against your Powerfsty glory and double-firing kill-them-ified Storm Bolters. Don't forget the 2+ save.
Don't field any light tanks. The only vehicles I'd recoomend are Land Raiders (only if you don't like deepstriking Terminators), Rhinos (rush), & Whirlwinds (indirect fire), and Dreadnaughts (see above).
A lot of Plasma pistols & Meltaguns are good. In close combat, they wound you on a 5+ and you wound them on a 3+, so why not ignore thair armour? Ideal Tau hunter Sergeants are Plasma pistols & Power swords. It costs 5pts higher than a Powerfist, but when you can instant-kill all but a battlesuit (but ignore it's armour and wound it on a 2+ anyway) just before assaulting it and ignoring all armour, who needs I1, S8 anyway? If you must have some S8, that's what Meltaguns are for!
Assault Marines are a gift from god! Deepstrike behind a railhead and plasma pistol the rear armour, if that fails, assault and powerfist the rear. If the Railhead runs, it's getting into a spot dangerously close to your major group. If it dies, move your attention to the Tau themselves and wade with impunity through their weakened ranks, which shouldn't have been shooting you du to FotA & sniperfire & such.
So, to recap:
Good things to have against Tau.
-2 Librarians, each with FotA, one with FotD. (you can make the 1 power one as basic as you want).
-Infiltrating Melta-ey assaulty Vets
-The right Dreads
-some 5 man Tac squads with a Meltagun & unupgraded sarge. Make those Ld tests needed to hit your big groups.
-Deepstrikers (at least 2-3)
Now. To the part we all hate. The Hammerhead.
<E!_Mance>'s tactica against Hammerheads
Hammerheads come with 2 weapons of note. Railgun & Ion cannon.
They are much like a Predator, but with better side armour. But remember that they are skimmers.
To wit, the Railgun, the S10 AP1 weapon of massive range, is surprisingly the most popular weapon on this tank. Firing in either a powerful single slug or in a massive blast marker. The submunition shot is better at foiling infantry, but not Marines. It wounds them on a 2+, but we still get our 3+ save. The best way to protect your advancing Command squads or stationary Devs or Maneuvering Termies or whatever else, is to use at least 2 5 man squads with 4 bolters & a Meltagun, then keeping them closer to this tank than the rest of the army. The Meltagun means a threat still exists if they get close enough, but it's still not too expensive. Only 170pts for two. Theis way you can fire at the Hammerhead with your Krak missiles, Lascannons, Assault Cannons, what have you, etc. without the fear of losing a few important men. Vehicles are still able to be hit, but the only vehicles you should be using are either so strong or so weak that it doesn't matter. Dreadnaughts are good because they can get into cover fairly quickly and generally hide. Besides, we Space Marines are feared for our Infantry.
Defensive aside, now we move in for the kill.
As previously mentionned, deepstriking Assault Marines with Powerfist sarge & 2 Plas pistols (only way to go) who land behind a Hammerhead will really put the hurt on. Land 6" away from it's rear armour so the scattering effect will always have them in range, then plasma pistol that weak AV10 backside with your S7 shots. Being Skimmers, they only need to be immobilised to die. Who really uses Skimmers at only 6" movement? At any rate, immobilising will allow you to assault it next turn after sommore shooting. A powerfist against rear armour is great. Also, Melta tech is universally the best. Only downsides beng 1 shot & low range, but S8 AP1 is yummy. Especially within 1/2 range. Assault Cannons are Hammerhead bane when on LSTs, when they need a 6 to hit that S10 means almost nothing, then you have 7 shots to destroy it. It may be a dangerous weapon, but it can only be used so well, it needs line of sight and is afraid of danger due to it's price.
Skyrays are just the same, use the same tactics but beware markerlights and take them out asap with your infiltrators and foreward Melta squads.
Devilfish & Piranha are pathetically weak, no problems there, they haven't even got weapons as fearful as the Hammerhead or Skyray. Treat them as a Razorback and Land Speeder respectively.
When you look at them, you realise that the Tau are nothing to the Astartes.
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; July 13th, 2006 at 05:25.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
How to counter DE.
DE are good in both shooting and close combat. They have the same BS as marines have and they can take lances. This means that they will glance your vehicles on a 4+. To counter this you can sent some speeders out but since they have much better targets this option isn’t viable until maybe turn 4. Use the speed of your speeders to your advantage. Most of the Dark Eldar might have Fleet Of Foot but they ain’t certain of the distance they walk in this way.
A key target for your speeders are his transports because he will hug cover with his raiders. If you place your speeder so that you can zoom around the cover in front of you, you will be able to target his raiders and the sheer volume of shots will get it down. Remember Raiders are open topped so even on the glancing table you will take them out on a 4+. Even normal bolters can cut through the armour of a raider so every shot counts as being a potential raider destroyer.
His Archon will have a unit witches as a retinue so he can still use Fleet of Foot. This squad will only have a 6+ save against shooting. The squad only is a meat shield for the succubus and the Archon. The succubus is a power weapon wielding maniac that in combination with the witches and Archon will rape your squad. So you have to prevent that they will hit close combat. Hit there raider hard. You can’t completely destroy the raider because glancing hits just don’t cause a vehicle exploded result. If your DE player knows what he does then the will put some raiders in open site so that he can channel your fire lanes and minimize casualties.
If he does hit close combat get the butt of your dread to the fighting because DE lack CC anti-tank weapons. If you manage to get your dread in close combat with his archon you are going to win that CC and you incinerate his archon and he loses one of the most effective units on the battlefield. The only problem here is getting him in CC because he will fire every dark lance at you because he’s well aware of the fact that when you get him in CC you win.
As for normal witch squads in raider the same thing applies with the exception that the dread won’t be necessarily. If you can shoot the squad to 3-4 witches you will win it. Don’t rely on power weapons because they have a 4++ save. Just give them the full might of a space marines squad and you will vaporize them.
You can threat Warp beasts just like any other cavalry type. They are nasty in CC just like every other DE squad but if you can keep there size to a certain limit they ain’t your problem.
The next problem you face are the Warrior squads. You pay the minimum of points for them and since there are more serious threats they won’t get shot. They have a BS of 4 but have a 5+ save and need to rely on cover which you can use to your advantage when you advance with a chaplin led assault squad. The assault squad will be useless in your front line because if you shoot the raiders down you will have enough time to reduce the witches to a manageable size for your normal squads. The assault squad is going to rip the warrior squads and give the normal squads a little more freedom when moving.
If you advance make sure you don’t come across the archon with retinue because then it’s bye, bye squad. Hug cover(duh) and make sure you leave a free path back so that if you don’t shoot enough witches you can still help them there. Extensive use of flamers is recommended this time because the warriors won’t get there cover save nor do they get there normal save. If there the warriors refuse to run after the purgation you can assault them and they are rendered useless.
Another way to get rid of the warrior squads is to make use of the fact that a whirlwind is a barrage weapon and also negates the cover save. You will wound on a 2+ and using the large blast you will be able to drag down 4-5 warriors per missile. This doesn’t sound interesting but remember that they need to take a pinning test with -1.
Mandrakes require a different approach because you know where they are but you can’t target them. These invisible creatures approach the objective without being shot and then reveal themselves. When they do this only S6 weapons are of a use here because you need to instant kill them. Here come the missile launcher and plasma gun squad in handy because you can kill two of these guys a turn. They ain’t that great but because only strength 6 or higher can harm them they are excellent objective takers.
There Heavy support will consist of 1 or 2 Talos. These are best taken out with missile launchers. Lascannons are overkill here and aren’t even worth it against the raiders. If these things hit CC don’t worry, just have a powerfist in the squad and you will squeeze him. This is just another monsterous creature that is getting killed in the hands of the veteran sergeant.
Ravengers can be taken both as transport options and as an heavy support option. They have 3 plasma cannon equivalents aboard. If your opponent has one of these on the board target it at the same time as you target the raiders. They might not carry a nasty CC unit but they can shoot your marines to death.
4. Warp beasts
6. Let the Talos get in CC with you. You can handle him in CC relatively well.
Things To take:
1. Marines, Marines, Marines
3. Assault squad with a chaplin although the chaplin isn’t required
5. Dreadnought fitted for close range/close combat
Last edited by dicegod; July 13th, 2006 at 10:09.
DonÂ´t mess with the dicegod