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Hi all. I'm about to start collecting 40k stuff again (I was 13 and nothing ever came of the money I spent..) and I have been thinking about a DH army. I like the fluff, and the models look sweet. As far as the rules go, they seem crazy awesome. Except for the points cost. You don't get many models, and everyone keeps telling me that you will always be horribly outnumbered. But is it really that bad? Do the amazing units we get to field rip larger armies to pieces, or do they overwelm DH armies?
Not for my List, at 2000 points I got a GM, 50 PAGKs and 3 Dreads.
It breaks down like this;
108 Storm Bolter Shots
12 Assault Cannon Shots
Plus we can deploy at the front our deployment zone and walk backwards to get more shots, so a Tyranid army isn't that scary, and in assault our NFW earn thier points back, as long as your not outnumbered in CC, which you shouldn't be with all the shooting.
I've never had a problem with being outnumbered, per se. When it comes to GKs, you can outshoot enemies that are better than you in CC, and you can kick the crap out of shooty enemies in assaults. They are wonderful, wonderful units, worth every single point you pay. I've only ever been on the losing side of 1 assault with any unit of my GKs, in all the games I've yet played with them, and then that outnumbering rule can get you, as it did me. (I have had my GKs shot to pieces several times, but that's another story. ) Otherwise, being outnumbered isn't really the problem. GKs pump out a lot of firepower, and they pack a huge wallop in close combat. With that combination, and with careful tactics, you should be able to take out multiple units for every one GK unit you field. It's not easy to do, but it can be done more often than you might imagine.Originally Posted by Saterus
The only problems I have are with heavily-armoured opponents.
A pure DH army is lacking in squad-based heavy weaponry, and beyond that, we have primarily dreadnoughts and land raiders. Land raiders have their defenders, but they are massive point sinks that cost about as much as a full squad of GKs, so it can become a difficult pill to swallow. Dreads are great, easily the most affordable heavy weaponry we have, but you can't get more than 3 in an army, and at AV 12, they can be popped relatively easily.
Other options include melta-toting ISTs, plasma guns on ISTs, and thunder hammers on GKTs. I have yet to find any of these solutions for anti-armor satisfactory. My opponents invariably target anything threatening their heaviest armor ASAP, and with that concentration, the units just don't survive. Psycannons and your GKs are good for transports, but anything heavier is something that I struggle mightily against because of the aforementioned limitations.
Inducted Imperial Guard is a very good choice to introduce large amounts of affordable heavy weaponry into your army. I don't do it because I'm stubborn, but tactically, it's a very smart choice.
In short, if you are willing to play finesse tactics with hammer-tough units, this is the army for you! Winning is challenging, and therefore very sweet when accomplished.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
As has been metioned above, DH combat and ranged abilities far outstrip those of most other armies.
I have to stress however that you shouldnt be overly brazen in your battle plan confident in our ability to kill things......we can still be shot down ourselves.
I actually find that im rarely too outnumbered. With the exceptions of IG, Orks and Tyranids there arn't many armies that field too much more than we do, besides, hordes REALLY dont appreciate stormbolters.....MiketheFox put it superbly,I think our not being to badly outnumbered is because of our lack of heavy support options in the forms of tanks etc.Plus we can deploy at the front our deployment zone and walk backwards to get more shots, so a Tyranid army isn't that scary, and in assault our NFW earn thier points back, as long as your not outnumbered in CC, which you shouldn't be with all the shooting.
Ordinary opponents will field 1-3 tanks including a number of heavy veichles in games even as small as 1500 points. This eats up a good 100-500 points in a number of cases. Because our anti-tank options are limited and/or cheap (dreads) we fill up the remaining points with GK models.
It all works out in the end as long as you plan your army well and play strategically. Games-Workshop wouldn't design an army (sepecially one as fluff rich as the DH) that will be simply walked on by outnumbering armies.
Like the rest have stated play to are advantages. The first to games I played I was out numbered. My third game we where about even. My last two games over laping fire helped alot.
Why use science and education when ignorance and superstition will work just as well.
While i'm usually outnumbered, I'm not that outnumbered by Marines or CSMs. Because we can't take transports, I don't usually have to worry about the points for those, and becase our special weapons detract from out stock troops, I don't spent a lot of points on those.
Of course we are usually completly outnumbered by 'Nids, Orks and IG. These worry me less than Marines (except IG), because with so many Storm Bolters, there is barely ever a hoard army that can take me on.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
Good. Thats what I wanted to hear.
About heavy weapons, you all mentioned it being the weakpoint. I understand that when you give Psycannons to GKs, they lose their NFW, but do you ever do it anyway? Does anyone use the Purgatation squads? They seem ungodly expensive. How many people induct Guard? Those of you that do, do you like the results? How do Guard work points wise in a DH army? Can you still have 2-5 Squads of Guardsmen in a Platoon like in a regular Guard army? Are the IST very good? After reading the stuff about GKs, they look very pale in comparison.
One off topic question: In a Kill-Team game, can you use Grey Knights or do you have to use IST? I realize that you dont have many GKs, but I think I want to buy 1 box of GKs and build and paint them before I buy the next, so I was hoping there would be something to do with them.
Lots of questions, but I think I'm convinced they are cool enough (doesnt take much convincing though) and am going to go buy a squad of GKs tonight.
Psycannons and purgation squads are funky beasts and take a little bit of experience to truely appreciate. Initially i was one of those people who said no to purgation squads but after my last few games im rewriting my list to include a purgation squad and some psycannon toting inquisitors backing them up. Like Mike pointed out, few (including me) appreciate just how shooty a GK army can be and what type of power that you can throw down even out of CC.
This epiphany came to me after in a really small fast 500 points game i proceded to outshoot my necron opponent by simply standing back outside of his rapid fire range and pumelling him with a greater number of shoots than he could shoot in return with his warriors, after his warriors were reduced to almost nil, my GK's and GM walked in and absolutely slaughtered the rest.
With Pyscannons and GK's you just have to really apreciate the stats and range of the gun. Yes you lose your storm bolter and NFW, but your plain GK gets 2 attacks in close combat or 2 ranged storm bolter attacks per turn. A psycannon GK gets 3 shots medium high strength shots every turn and at 36". Thats really vicious when you start thinking about what a psycannon squad can do the enemy, especially multiwound Tyranid Monsterous Creatures and 4+ armor save horde armies.
The down side is that you lose 1 Hvy Slot that cant go to an armor poping dred, the squad costs a butload, and they are going to be a prime enemy target.
The only honorable options left to we combatants is seppuku or semantics...which amount to the same thing really.
I too started out with the dreams of a DH army, purchasing a GKT box and GK box, sure the fluff is amazing but it comes down to how you want to play, I have gone wayward and created an IG force with DH allies, but in saying this I have created an IG army around my Grey Knights and only call myself IG because the codex suited my style better. With a 2000 point army I havn't got an overwelming amount of general troops but about 7 vehicles (inc 2 russ's) a couple of stormtrooper squads (chimera'd) and they are all to set up my Inquisitor with Teleport Homers and deep striking GK's and Terms...
This is an army that i'm still panning out, but its another way you can go.:ninja:
Yes, people really do underappreciate the ranged factor DH brings to the table. Yes, we lack a heavy armor piercing unit, but thats what either using intucted troops or even using an IST squad w/ 2 meltas and a bolter-melta sergeant can work as well. As for the purgation squad, I've used them against my bro's 'Nid army a few times and they work excellent. Against units like genestealers, they are going to cut through them like a hot knife through butter. I would definately suggest taking them any time you will be facing a horde type army or a 4+ save or worse that has a higher initative than you (like stealers...man they will tear GK's up in CC if u let them, rending...shudders...).