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I played a 1200pt game today against IG and I got my butt totally whipped. I'm using a trait based chapter which im reorganizing becuase of bad traits and for the game i used 2 full tactical squads, scout snipers, assault squad, Chaplain, and Venerable Hellfire Dread. I was able to maybe wipe out one out of 5 guard squads and didnt even get to touch the Basalisk or the Leman Russ. Is there any good space Marine army that is good against IG any suggestions would be great becuase I have a tourny coming up and I'll probably be up against the same guy again and I would like to save myself from humiliation.
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1200 points, huh? Funny... that's what we usually play.
Against Imperial Guard, there are a few things that you need to understand.
- Yes, you have a 3+ save, which means that most of the stuff that they throw at you is going to bounce off.
- Yes, it is true that Imperial Guardsmen are "only human", and are far inferior to a Space Marine when compared individually.
- Yes, your Space Marine can kill 3-4 Guardsmen by himself without much trouble.
The problems are as follows:
- With all of the shots that they can throw at you, your 3+ save might not be quite as good as you thought.
- Seeing that you're probably outnumbered by 5 or 6 to 1, if not more, being superhuman and better equipped isn't quite as good as you might have hoped.
- They have a lot of weapons that make big blasts that seriously hurt you, as they ignore your armor.
Now, here's a few questions before I continue:
- Was your opponent using a Vox Network (something that spreads the Leadership of the Officer to the entire army)?
- What did your opponent's list look like?
- Was he using any Doctrines?
FireDrake is right..we need to know all that stuff before we can really continue...However...some things that may help you are:
1. Whirlwinds are a great help..all the time. Giant blasts can really save the day when you need it. Besides, the points cost is fair, so 2 Whirlwinds working together can make all the difference you need.
2. So are assualt weapons and heavy bolters! But...terminators are bad...with all those shots, it's pretty easy to fail.
3. Landspeeders are a bad idea too. (Personnally) Though they do carry heavy bolters, they're a big target, and IG generally carry many heavy weapons.
4. Don't put alot of points into HQ or Elites. You'll need more men to soak up damage. Theirs no point in trying to make an unkillable super unit if your opponent doesnt have to kill it to win...or more importantly if youre opponent can kill it with a single turn...(Earthshaker)
5. Assault! I would recommend alot of assualt...If you can get close and dirty, IG dont stand much of a chance. Beware, they do throw alot of shots, so you might not get as much CC as you may like.
Hope this helps...Rok on forever dude
A couple of general pointers on the list you used:
- Scout snipers. I've never really found these guys useful against Guard. I would drop them and get more tactical marines.
- Hellfire Dread. Again, not so useful against guard - it is unlikely to earn its points back and is easily destroyed by numerous IG heavy weapons.
- Plenty of marines. The more the better.
- Anti Tank. You need to take out those IG tanks. They are a huge threat to SMs. Get some bikes or speeders with melta weaponry and zip them up the flank to the tanks (can be harder than it sounds). Alternatively get a tactical squad with the "cleanse and purify" trait and meltaguns and drop pod them in close to the tanks
- Think assault. Do not enter a shooty match with guard - they will beat you. Better to get your marines into close combat where they are safe from ordnance templates and other shootyness. There are lots of ways to do this. Infiltrating near to the guard positions can help, as can clever use of drop pods. Just remember that it is not worth shooting at guardsmen, they are too numerous and cheap for your shooting to make much of a difference.
There are lots more things you can do to make your list a little better against guard. Have a look at this article by Addoran for some useful pointers.
There is a thread which will teach you some stuff.
"New to 40k. Marines Vs"
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
Okay... Here is all the information I can remember about his army.
1) List: 4 or 5 Basic Troop Squads each with an autocannon
1 large squad of about 10 Ratlin Snipers
1 Heavy Weapons Team with 3 Autocannons
1 Leman Russ with Big Blast Cannon
1 Fully Loaded Chimera
Not sure what the commander was but it wasnt a heavy point commander
2) Add ons: He was using Sharpshooters doctrine
Pretty sure he had a Vox Network cuz he never failed a leadership test
Hope this helps. Thanks again everyone
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Okay, this is almost exactly what a friend of mine uses.
First, I find it quite helpful to remove the Vox network. You can do that by taking a pair of Whirlwinds and dropping missiles on the command unit's a couple of times. You'll probably get them to flee or kill them all, either is good. Once the Network is down, it's time to act really scary and make his Guard units scamper. A Librarian with Fear of the Darkness is quite helpful, especially when given a Jump pack or Drop Pod so that he can get close fast.
Against this Guard player, I bet using a Rhino Wall would be helpful to get any fast Assault elements close as fast as you can. It'll protect them from the multitude of Autocannon shots that you'll have to deal with.
Ignore the Ratlings in the shooting phase. They'll probably sit in cover and shoot out at you, and they get +1 to their cover saves, so attacking them with anything but a flamer at range is a waste of time.
Hopefully that helps some.
I play against IG alot, and there is always a Bassie and 2 Leman Russes, plus numerous HW. I recommend you drop pod as close to the bassie as you can. I like to take the trait Cleanse and Purify so I get 2 melta guns to pop it fast.
As for the other tanks, pick one for your dev squad and shoot until it pops!
Drop another pod (or three!) of marines close enough so that in a turn or 2 they can assault! Once you hit their lines in CC, especially with some power weapons, you will roll them up like a bad rug. Remember, when you are locked in CC with them, they can't shoot you anymore!!!
Bottom line, get close fast. I think the best way to do this is via drop pods!
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
Wow. I love this Forum. Thank you very much guys. I'm going to be much more prepared for the next matchup. I have one additional question though. The IG player I play against says that you cannot use drop pods uless you have the actual model for it. Is this true or he just finding an excuse for me not to slaughter him? Thanks again for the help guys and girls
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Well, technically due to the WYSIWYG rules you can't use drop pods unless you have a model to represent them. This does not mean you have to buy the Forgeworld ones - Make some out of yogurt pots or something similar using the FW pods as a guide. Note that if you play in a tournament, you usually cannot use non-GW models. For tournaments you should either get the FW ones or build your own out of GW parts.
If you don't want to scratch build your own pods, think about getting some of these, I have them and they work very well.
If you play a friendly, you could ask your opponent if you could proxy some drop pods for a match (using mugs or something similar) to see if they suit your style of play.