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i play dark angels and am thinking of starting a deathwing army. i already have a termie chaplain, termie assault squad and 2 dreads. i am looking to buy a LRC and will soon have the bits to build a normal termie squad. what else should i get? any other tips, hints, or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. thanks
2 Dreads is good - they really need to be armed with TLLC and ML in Deathwing as they are really your only source of long range anti-tank firepower. Other than that you just need LOTS of termies - general practice is 5 man squads with 2 Assault Cannons per squad. A termie librarian would be a good choice too.
Personally I wouldn't look at taking an assault squad or a Land Raider of any kind until 2500 points +.
A few drop pods might be nice too....
Conventional wisdom for deathwing armies up to 2000 points is 1 squad of 5 w 2x ML, a Ven Dread w TLLas/ML + Tank Hunter and as many 5 man squads w 2x Assault Cannons as you have left over points for + a Librarian.
The theory goes that you should have everything on the table earning it's points back right from turn 1 because you will always be outnumbered,
LINK to a very good Dark Angels site.
Last edited by medic_4077; August 1st, 2006 at 15:42.
War Record Since Sept 2005
Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar
Just make sure you load up on Terminators first, once you have a decent number of them, then worry about Dreads and Land Raiders.
Deathwing is a fun army, but I don't like them in less than 1500pts games.
For 1500pts, Librarian with FotD led command squad.I like the mix of AC and CML in the command squad. Two Dreads are OK, and I like them with assault cannons, but that's just me. One should be venerable, both with extra armor. The rest are 5 men squads with 2 AC.
In my Deathwing army, I drop pod everything, always. If you're not comfortable with this approach, you can try a couple of foot slogging games or you can deep strike.
My advice in 1500pts is no LRC nor assault squads. if you field a LRC, you'll lower even more the already low model numbers.
I like the librarian over the Chaplain in Deathwing. FotD is awesome against low leadership and most of the time you'll send them home running. Besides that I try to avoid engaging in CC as much and try to out shoot my opponent whenever possible.
Just keep in mind that you'll always be outnumbered and don't despair. Your terminators can pack an incredible punch for their squad size.
I dissagree a fair amount with cowboy but agree a lot with Franksi.
Prolem is that having a DA army with a DW component is not a good start place for DW, the basis of the termies in the original army is they opperate to compliment other units, however in DE the role is entirely different.
DW is a shooting army, until codex SM came out, that meant hoards of CMLs and a scattering of ACs, however the changes to ACs meant that by convention nowerdays DW have a core of troops with as many ACs as you can get in it, these promply shoot everything within 24 inches. then shuffle forwards a bit and start again.
Accordinly priority 1 is make that core element as powerfull as possible, take as many ACs as you can get, which means 5 or at the most 6 man squads.
Dont bother with Deep striking as this will reduce the ammount of shooting you can do and force your already small army to arrive in small bite size chunks for your opponent to neatly massacre
Dont bother with Land raiders until atleast 2500 points, sure the chappy/assault squad/LRC bomb is an attractive thing, but if you think it is attractive to you, it is even more attractive to your opponent, that is 700 points which can be rendered useless with one simple las cannon/dark lance/bright lance/railgun etc shot.
Same is true of other Land raiders, eac one you buy removes 5 termies with 2 ACs from from your fire base, it just aint worth it.
Dont take assault squads, clearly the LR trick is a waste, equally you are pulling away points from your fire base for something that frankly isnt fast enough to choose what it goes into combat with so you opponent can manage
Now you got to take a HQ, since it is a shooty army, a chaplain, as the best assault HQ can be ruled out quickly, that leaves masters and libbys, in 1000 points you need it cheap, hence a master with termie armour, storm bolter and power weapon fits the bill, in larger battles often Libbys are prefered, I take mine with Fury as it adds some anti hoard fire power which has a range longer than 24 inches, there is a high risk stratergy for the libby HQ which I will come on to.
Now what you got is a hoard of termies wandering round shooting the heck out of everything within 24 inches, what does get past the assault cannons and storm bolters will be badly shot up and will then encounter a bunch of angry termies with powerfist.
But you also need to consider long range anti tank guns which are now rapidly picking off your termies from outside of 24 inches, the best response to this is a dreadnaught with TLLC and ML, this represents the cheapest way of getting long range fire power into the army and hence offer the best solution with the minimum impact on your fire base.
Idealy up to and including 1500 points you want two of these dreads.
practically it is difficult to fit 2 into 1000 points, so this is the only point when I still use my cyclones, I take 1 dread as above and equip one of my three squads with 2 cyclones, wich I didnt have to but some stuff hurts too much not to
above 1500 points you need to start looking at 3 dreads
I know I said dont deep strike, I do hold to that, there is however quite a common high risk stratergy of DSing a Libby with FOD and a command squad, right in the middle of your opponents army, theory is fear takes out most units, what is left gets shot up.
For my money it is really only applciable against a couple of armies, anythign well lead or fealess will ignore the power and shoot the pants off your 350+ point HQ with every gun they have. If you do use this stratergy, I would urge you to use drop pod as teleport will blow you out the water about one time in three cos you are trying to land right in the middle of his army
That is the basics of DW, learn how to play that and play it well, then start to try deep strike or mechanised armies and see how it changes things.
Personnaly I am not a powergamer, I love fluffy armies, but DW is at so much of a dissadvantage that making it worse will just result in short one sided battles and boredom with the army
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Take my advice with a grain of salt as I'm new also to DW but just remember that in the end its your army and if you play alot of low model armies then the LC/Chappy bomb might be a good idea.
Only thing I disagree with is the 3 dreads over 1500 pts. Cheredanine did help me alot with my army list though and I've got it finalized, being assembled and heading off to paint as soon as I get my lazy self down to put together 20 more terminators...
I don't really see the need for a 3rd dread when you really need to spend all the points you can on troops. I'd rather have an extra squad of terminators and 2 more assault cannons than a 3rd dread and a slightly better tooled HQ but do what you want. Definetly NO land raiders or termie assault squads until you get into the 2,500 or 3,000 pt range. Save those for a regular DA army. Besides, rumour has it that when the DA codex comes out we'll get to mix LCs and THs into command squads so we'll wind up with the UBER 2 AC/pfist and the rest combat LC mix led by a chappy.
As an example my 2,000 pt list includes a venerable tank hunting dread, regular tank hunting dread and packs 30 terminators. Led by a pretty basic codicier with FotA for extra firepower and pinning. If those 2 dreads aren't enough to eliminate or at least severely limit heavy artillery coming in then the rending from the assault cannons comes into play.
Stick to Cheredanine's advice of shooting up everything I can as anything besides a big mob of orks, genestealers or a super elite unit that costs way too much is going to get ripped up by the pfists.
Guard and Tau are an issue though... unsure what advice to give on those guys except try to get into combat asap.
Last edited by ScottyDsntKnow; August 4th, 2006 at 06:21.
The sun never sets on a badass.
I understand the frustration well ScottyDsntKnow. But the problem as anyone knows who's tried to build a Deathwing army is the expense of a basic infantry squad, trying to fit as many in as possible then filling the gaps with Dreads to make up the total. An 'extra squad of termies and 2 more assault cannons' is considerably more points than a single Dread. So a small DW force is always something of a compromise.Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow
A lot depends too on whether you go the 5 or 6-man squad size.
6-man limits me to roughly 2 squads, 3 dreads, an HQ Libby and a 4-man command squad. (1500 points)
5-man squads (from memory) it's roughly 3 squads, 2 dreads, an HQ and 4 man command squad.
In the US 1850 points army this isn't such a problem. You can fit 3 Dreads, 4 squads (5 man) plus an HQ with command squad.
Bear in mind that a Dread is basically half the cost of a 5-man squad w/ two assault cannons.
Keeper of the Dark Fortress
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Current armies: Deathwing and Grey Knights (I'd have more if my wife would let me)
hey Z was wondering when you were gonna pitch up in this thread
Seems like you, me and Cheredanine speak the same language on this one (usually 2 or 3 times a week at the moment!) :w00t: