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Now, before you read the rest (aw, you pr*ck, you skipped this bit...)
You either came here because you're like me. Some freak who prowls the boards until the rest of the regulars of this subsection start going "Grrr, it's <E!_Mance> diblling away again. Nobody post!". Ot you're a newbie who wanted to read thisin the hopes of getting some help.
If you didn't read this bit, you're probably a newbie who saw a 'Space Marines' subsection & registered to ask what Chapter to be, or something like that . And no doubt, you'll make yet another "What Chapter should I be?" thread where red Angels join the Templars & Wolves to romp freely throughout.
If you're a well-established member, any particular info you could lend pertaining to your favourite Chapter like what they're REALLY like, would be appreciated.
If you don't know which Chapter you want to be, make your own. Simple as that. If you're busy weighing up the pros & cons of each existing Chapter, and can't decide... yeah.
And you can't say that it's a hard thing to do either, making your own Chapter. Just slap on some of your favourite colour, making a designated 'SMIK' (go to Turnsignals to find out what I mean), and choose some traits.
This is where it gets hard. My traits took me a week to select. There are a multitude of varying traits, which is sad, becuase most of the time, players take the Traits which give: Furious assault, True girt, Assault Marines, or CQC tac squads. (I took True grit, but not for assault).
<E!_Mance>'s tip on choosing traits
Don't think what can be effective, think about what you'd like to see on the field and how you'd like to use it. THEN choose traits to suit THAT. If you still need help, PM me. I WILL answer.
No Veterans. Characters MUST take T Hon & Stubborn. Multi-melta & AC on Speeders! Glory! Deathwing armies. Ravenwing armies.
Sit back and blast the enemy, if you advance at all, it's with Assault Marines & close range shooters. Shooty.
Assault & more assault. They can take 9 Jump pack equipped squads (3 Assault squads, 3 Assault Vets, 2 Honour guard, & Death COmpany). Everyone gets Furious assault and NOTHING ELSE. Pretty one-track on assault.
0-1 Ven Dread is HQ, so you can fill your elites with a bit more ease. Must take 1 HQ for each 750pts or so. Dev squads may shoot 2 targets. True Grit. Definately a more balanced army, but still assaulty.
20 man Tac squads. All the LRCs you could possibly want. No Psykers, Sergeants, Whirlwinds, or Scout bikes. The vows can boost an aspect of your warriors. You are fearless in close combat and can move an extra d6 if wounded. a Lack of sergeants will mean a lack of Teleport Homers. Definately assaulty.
Get off the Space Marine boards & get to Daemonhunters. They are beyond us.
Vanilla with Bug extermination teams & Honour guard (which may form a command squad and/or replace one model in a Tac or Dev squad). Good for basic strategies & balanced tactics.
Just follows the Codex with no added anything. Tactics are found everywhere for Vanilla.
Vanilla with that little bit extra, otherwise known as Trait armies. This allows your otherwise Vanilla Chapter to be a master-crafted power weapon as opposed to a piece of sharpened fruit. It takes a balance of advantages & disadvantages to make them.
Any other basic & pre-made Chapter is now a Traits army and those that matter have their traits listed in the Codex.
There you all go. Hope this helps your Chapter deciding process.
Again, PM ME IF YOU WANT MORE HELP ON THE SUBJECT!!!
EDIT: To all those who want to add info, please make it actually wrth reading. No general 'hur hur DA are tha best they rox0rz.' Make it good.
Oh, and for anyone interested in using a squad or so of (Codex: Liberty's Vanguard.)Liberty's Vanguard...
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; November 4th, 2006 at 23:50.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
Now that's what I call absolution.Gahhh! It's a certain number of points, which I cannot post here. (Sorry Firedrake)Originally Posted by <E!_Mance>
Okay, my info.
Yep. They're Dark. They're Angely. But they also have a secret. Nearly half their number went with Horus during the Heresy. So they are hunting down every single one of their number who defected and eliminating them. (Just a little fluff for you.)
Now, Dark Angels can be a very characterful army. And, unlike the other legendary chapters, they can be played in three different incarnations. Deathwing, Ravenwing, and regular Dark Angels.
The first company of the Dark Angels. This consists only of Terminators. Nothing else. This little fact makes them incredibly powerful. However, this handy option is also rather expensive. Because each and every Terminator is stubborn, their price goes up a little. However, this handy trait makes them IMPOSSIBLE to move. If you want to play a tough army, go Deathwing.
The only things available to a Deathwing army are, Terminators, Dreadnoughts, and Land Raiders. You are allowed only 1 LRC in any DA army. Basically, you'll want to load up on Terminators first. Then, once you have around 25 Terminators, go ahead and load up on Dreads and LR's. Only ever take one HQ in a Deathwing army, you'll need those points for more Terminators.
Deathwing does really well against small armies. Because they will most always be outnumbered, the Deathwing will always fare better against small armies. However, they'll fall to Tyranids, Guard and Orks. They have so many numbers compared to your Deathwing, you'll be eaten alive. Tyranids will look at you as this: "Extra crunchy exterior with a creamy filling."
Ravenwing is the 2nd company of the Dark Angels. This company solely consists of Landspeeders, Bikes and Attack Bikes. Any ravenwing unit has a handy ability: so long as the unit moves, they can claim a 6+ invulnerable save, to represent their extra training. They also all have skilled rider. But, since they all have both of these abilities, thier cost is higher too. Again, these guys will be outnumbered too.
Landspeeders are the most unusual of the three available units. These speeders cannot deep strike and do not have the option to have Typhoon missle launchers. However, they are allowed to mix weapons, Multi-Meltas and Assualt Cannons on one speeder.
Bikes and Attack Bikes remain the same as the SM codex aside from their price.
Ravenwing are the death of Low Save and static armies. Eldar, Imperial Guard and Orks will die to the Ravenwing. Their Higher speed and AP helps to annihilate these armies, making them prime choices for Xeno hunters. Plus, their hightened toughness can help them survive from massed fire.
REGULAR DARK ANGELS
This is the rest of the Dark Angels. They are allowed to take Ravenwing and Deathwing choices as part of their army. The main reason that Dark Angels are considered a shooty army is: Dark Angels never fall back from shooting. Never. This makes them especially adept at holding objectives and positions that most other armies would fall back from. For unmovable steeliness, take regular Dark Angels.
As <E!_Mance> said, they don't get veterans, but that doesn't matter as they get Terminators. Dark Angels used to be the only chapter able to take Plasma Cannons in Tac squads, but that changed. To make up for it, GW gave DA dreadnoughts able to take Plasma Cannons. A great option for MEQ horded armies. Other than that, they are almost identical to Vanilla marines.
These guys will perform best against assaulty armies. They'll sit back and shoot everything as they advance. Very nice. However, Dark Angels don't do well against stationary shooters. Imperial Guard, for instance. You'll never win a war of attrition against Guard, they'll out shoot you every time.
There's my little look into Dark Angels. If you want to get more details, pick up the DA codex. There, you'll get into fluff, special armoury choices and special characters of the army.
If you choose Dark Angels, they'll do you well. Welcome to the most sinister chapter of the Imperium
Last edited by Adrian MalSeraph; August 7th, 2006 at 21:13.
I think <E!_Mance> has hit the nail right on the head this time and I want to thank him for starting this thread becuase alot of "What should I choose?" forums have been popping up in the last few days. So big props to <E!_Mance> for his inititive. I shall lend my help to his noble cause.
Ok, so the Blood Angels are one of the first founding chapters and their now disceased Primarch Sanguinius was the Primarch that sacrificed his life so that the Emperor could defeat Horus. Since then many memebers of the Blood Angels have fallen terribly ill after having visions of their primarch being slain by Horus. These affected Space Marines go crazy and will only stop fighting when their heart stops beating, and in many cases will continue to fight even if that happens. These men are called the "Death Company"
The Special unit of the Blood Angels army. The units number are randomly selected at the begining of the game and are usually accompanied by a chaplain. For further details visit your local hobby store and read a Codex. Not only do these Space Marines get a normal armour save but they also recieve a "Feel No Pain" save if they fail their armour save. This unit is the Bullwork of a Blood Angels army and are used to plow into units causing devastation all over the field.
In order to stay within the rules for the site I wont go in depth into the special rules. Blood Angels thrist for close combat makes them able to make an extra move at the begining of each turn if certain rolls are made and passed. The Blood Angels also have access to certain wargear that is unique to the chapter. Also, every Blood Angels unit gets the "Furious Charge skill free but can't take the Tank Hunters skill. Chaplains cost more than normal Space Marine Chaplains becuase they recieve a free Death Company.
Baal Predator: The Baal class predator is a predator mod that uses an Assault Cannon as its main Weapon and can either have Heavy Flamer or Heavy Bolter Sponsors. This tank is extremly effective against low armoured mob armies such as Orks, Eldar, and Tyranids and is capable of laying down alot of fire at one time. The Assault Cannon is also able to punch through armour and it makes for a very good Suppourt Tank.
Veteran Assault Squads: Since the Blood Angels are so adapted to close combat their Assault Squads are able to carry assault weapons such as Melta Guns and Plasma Guns as well as Plasma Pistols and Flamers. They cost slightly more than normal Assault Squads but with Melta Guns that can Move 12 inches they make for amazing Anti-Tank Squads as well as being able to handle themselves very well in Close Combat.
The Blood Angels equivilent to Command Squads, the Honour Gaurd can take Jump Packs and are able to quickly traverse the board. However, they are extremly point heavy and with the death company allready acting as a command squad they usually aren't taken in smaller point battles.
Sanguinary High Preist
Special HQ unit that is very similar to an Apothacary. See Codex for details.
Blood Angels Special Dreadnought that uses 2 Close Combat arms and is a nightmare in Close Combat not only against Troops but against Tanks as well. A perfect addition to the close combat prowess of a Blood Angels Army.
Blood Angel Scout Squads
Blood Angels can only have one normal Scout squad and the rest have to be Blood Angel Scout Squads. This means that the squad must have BP and CC weapon.
Rhino and Razorback
Same in all respects to normal Rhinos except for the overcharged engines special Wargear.
If it is a hard hitting, Close Combat army that you are looking for, then the Blood Angels are a perfect match. With special Close Combat units and Furious Charge for free, it makes this chapter a nightmare on the table. You can also choose from successor chapter such as the Flesh Tearers (which one of our wonderfull mods plays ), Blood Drinkers, or Angels Encarmine to name a few. They follow the same rules but are just painted differently. If any new Space Marine player needs more clarification on the Blood Angels, don't be afraid to message me and I'll help you out. Good Luck.
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Spacw Wolves: The Sons of Russ
There's loads of SW fluff out there, just google it. So i'll get straight to the meat.
Acute Senses: All Space Wolves have this skill.
Counter-Attack: All Space Wolves have this skill.
True Grit: All Space Wolves recieve this skill, aside from Scouts and Blood Claws.
Will Not Teleport: May not teleport Terminators onto the battlefield. So, they must slog, ride in a LR or drop pod in.
No Matter The Odds: Space Wolves ignore negative morale mods for being outnumbered in CC. (which, in my personal opinion, is superior to fearless, as you do not suffer casualties for not taking a morale check)
Blood Claws: The newly initiated Space Wolves form Blood Claw packs. Their packs can be as large as fifteen men, making them the ideal option for Land Raider Crusaders. While their WS and BS is lower than normal marines, this is equalized by the fact that they can take several power fists to make each hit count and the fact that they cost slightly less than a normal space marine. Further, Blood Claws recieve an additional bonus attack on the charge, leaving them capable of easily rolling up an enemy's entire battle line by themselves.
Grey Hunters: The main fighting force of the Space Wolves, the Grey Hunters are the equivalent of a normal Tactical Marine in any other chapter. While they may not take heavy weapons, they are allowed a special weapon, as well as the options of PFs or PWs and plasma pistols, making them terribly dangerous as a drive-by shooting unit or a drop podding unit where mid to short range firefights are commonplace. Some people consider them slightly overpriced, because with bolters they are indeed fairly more expensive than their Codex equivalent from other chapters, but they're rock hard in CC with True Grit and bolters, which evens it up in my eyes.
Wolf Scouts: Wolf Scouts are those among the Space Wolves who prefer a solitary life to that with their pack brothers. They range ahead of the army and attack the enemy's supply lines, often spending years at a time behind enemy lines. Unlike all other Chapters, Space Wolf scouts are veterans. Considered "cheese" by many, one unit of Scouts per army may actually pop up behind the enemy, entering play from their deployment zone. Their array of anti-tank weaponry available to them makes them a terribly dangerous unit. Further, with PWs, they can also tie up and often slaughter static fire support squads.
Long Fangs: Long Fangs are the oldest among the Space Wolves, and their packs are often small because of casualties taken over the years. As a Pack is never given new members, those in a Long Fang pack have fought alongside eachother for centuries and understand eachother perfectly. They are the devastator squads of the Space Wolves, with one huge bonus. They may actually fire at two different units as long as their Pack Leader is alive. But their lack of any meatshields makes their survivability terribly low when compared to other chapter's equivalents.
Wolf Priest: Think Chaplain + Apothecary, minus the Chaplain's new special rules.
Wolf Lord: Wolf Lords are the Masters/High Marshalls of other chapters. There are twelve Wolf Lords, one commanding each of the twelve Great Companies that make up the Space Wolves fighting force. They are essentially Masters, but cheaper. Sadly, they did not recieve the new Codex: SM abilities either.
Rune Priest: Rune Priests are the psykers of the Space Wolves, but their warp-spawned powers are focused on the shamanistic. While they do not have a list to choose from as Codex: SM, they recieve one of the widely considered best psychic powers in the game. Essentially, the Rune Priest can call up a storm of snow and ice to provide a unit mobile cover.
I'll finish later on. Gotta run.
Last edited by Cypher-; August 5th, 2006 at 02:34.
Sam Mills (1959-2005) and Mark Fields - Keep Pounding
Cry Cheese, And Let Loose The Wraithlords And Templar!
Cheers guys! You know exactly why I made this thread.
Too bad many newbies will ignore it and post which thing to be anyway... but f*ck 'em.
While someof you can do what you've done, I'll cover traits (as I am prone to).
Traits, traits, glorious traits!
I'll give you a basic rundown of each Trait & some ways to use each. You can use them like I wrote, or you can try your own. It's all good.
BE SWIFT AS THE WIND: Corageous.
Bikes are elites or Troops. If taken as troops they must be full size.
The classic White Scars trait. When players use bikes, it's usually to get into close combat in turn 1 or 2 and lay waste to a couple of things before they die a gruesome death. With this trait, you can swamp the enemy in turn 1 and by turn 3, you've kicked to pieces pretty much everything. Definately good for bike fans, but useless to anyone else as this is it's only purpose.
BLESSED BE THE WARRIORS: Fierce, Zealous.
Assault Marines can also be Elites. If so, they must Furious assault.
A definate Assault Chapter trait. If you want to copy Blood Angels but don't want the blood rage, take this and the other crimson named trait. It's useful if you want to use Speeders & bikes aplenty but don't want to be deprived of Assault Marines.
CLEANSE & PURIFY: Sombre, Stern.
Tactical squads replace heavy weapons for a 2nd assault weapon.
A trait for those who want mobile tactical squads with more bite. You pay a bit more for the 2nd one, but who cares? Any pairing of Meltagun, Plasma gun, or Flamer is avaliable for your tactical squads. Definately good if you want to Drop pod and not lose any firepower due to that Multi-melta, just replace the Las with another Meltagun. Or if you want an infantry killer, take 2 Plasma, anti-horde? 2 Flamers. It's a mighty trait because you lose zero mobility for more firepower.
HEED THE WISDOM OF THE ANCIENTS: Wise.
Dreads can be Elites or Heavy support.
All Dreadnaughts can be venerable in this trait. In fact, every Dread taken as Elites MUST be. This Trait is a powerhouse for Walkers, with a possible 6 Venerable Dreadnaughts, you can monster mash your way into the enemy ranks and use your Infantry to jump in between them and offer coveing fire. Or you can be like me and use them to allow your 20 Vets & 10 Termies to romp freely while still having that Dreadnaught.
HONOUR YOUR WARGEAR: Wise, Dutiful.
Devastator squads can also be Elites. If so, they must take a skill.
Tank Hunting Krak Missiles are brilliant. Takes 40% off the price to get a S9 attack against vehicles. You also still have the option of using Frag missiles against hordes & swarms. Another use is to Infiltrate 2 Dev squads with 10 men each & 4 Multi-meltas. Think of the terror you could create with that. Using this trait to its fulladvantage could funnel the enemy into your missile arc with your Meltas. Among other things too, of course. If you like using Dreadnaughts & Veteran Devastator squads, this Trait & Heed the wisdom will definately pique your interest.
NEVER DESPAIR: Sombre, Dutiful.
May have an extra turn if you wish.
This is a lesser-used trait. It's value is dubious even to those who would need it as it's still only a 50-50 chance to work. The only use for this Trait is if you have a slow-working army list and want to possibly actually DO something.
NO MERCY, NO RESPITE: Dutiful, Fierce, Stern.
Furious assault for Tacs & Jets.
The other Blood Angel wannabe trait. Furious assault for your Tactical & Assault Squads means when they charge, even your basic grunt will be a blood thirsting maniac. Not very useful for Bolter Tac squads, but heaven for your Jetarines.
Mix this with Take the fight to them to make this useful for your Tacs.
PURITY ABOVE ALL: Pious.
Each Sergeant may become an Apothercary at the normal price.
What's not to like about this? We get a medic in EVERY SQUAD! A Tactical squad can be a Command squad with a heavy weapon, Apothecary, & Assault weapon plus 2 meatshield Marines... But, this trait is not for the half-assed who are only looking to use something for 1 squad. Must be used en-masse, not for that 1 squad in the middle of the foprmation. Taken in a Plasma heavy squad this trait is a godsend, as the Gets Hot! rule is softened. With No mercy, no respite you can have 2 Plasma guns and rapid fire to your heart's content.
SCIONS OF MARS: Wise.
No Captains. Techmarines can have 3 wounds and are HQ.
Only good if you love the red man. You have to kiss the Rites of Battle goodbye, but can now repair vehicles with your mandatory HQ, who can do so much more besides.
SEE BUT DON'T BE SEEN: Corageous, Sombre.
Tacs & Devs can Infiltrate.
If you're tired of footslogging your troops to meet the enemy, this is the trait for you. If you love Multi-melta Devs, this is the trait for you. Having the bulk of your army starting RIGHT NEXT TO THE ENEMY with heavy guns & meatshield squads in front is indeed satisfying to some. Taken with any of the other Dev squad changing trait, you can have a fire-support POWERHOUSE at whim & will (Imagine Multi-meltas with S8+2d6AP starting right next to vehicles... Drool).
SUFFER NOT THE ALIEN TO LIVE: Pious.
May have Preferred enemy: Something.
This ability is the cheapest skill to have (apart from Acute senses, but it needs to be with another, so is voided). Only a single point each to hate an enemy and automatically know their weakness. Must be Eldar & Dark Eldar, Orks, or Tyranids. Simple enough if you want to have a flavour to your Chapter and face said Xenos a lot on the tabletop.
SUFFER NOT THE WORKS OF HERETICS: Pious.
Tacs & Devs can have Tank Hunters.
Same as See but don't be seen, but now you kill tanks. Very useful against Steel legion or any heavily armoured players, what with s5 boltgun against vehicles. This is the 2nd trait needed to have those S9 infiltrating Multi-meltas.
TAKE THE FIGHT TO THEM: Fierce, Zealous.
Tac squads may be equipped with Bolt pistols & Chainswords.
This is good for a mobile army. If you mov around a lot, you're only going to be able to fire once at 12" with your Bolters anyway. Now, at least, you can assault after shooting, making a much more flexible force.
TRUST YOUR BATTLE-BROTHERS: Corageous.
True Grit for anything apart from Termies & Scouts.
Not only True Grit, but Counter-attack too! This makes your Chapter like Space Wolves MKII. While usually, the True Grit is only useful for the 2nd round of close combat when you charge (if you didn't fire your Bolters), or when you're charged; this Trait gives you 2 skills for only 3pts each man. You can sit ack and shoot, then rob enemy assault specialists of some charging attacks, and have increased attacks of your own. You gain terrain at the same time. What's not to like? You remove their Furious assault & add your own if you have it.
UPHOLD THE HONOUR OF THE EMPEROR: Zealous.
Invulnerable saves for Command & Veteran squads.
Simple really, you get a free 6+ anti-AP save for your lead elements. Nice for drop-podding & Infiltrating.
Stay tuned for the disadvantages.
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; September 7th, 2006 at 05:18.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
I don't have a problem sticking this up. Let's keep it on topic and on target, shall we boys?
Thanks to the new space marine codex and the traits system that they put in there, it has made it rly easy to play some of the more well known chapters that don't actually have any speacial rules. One of these chapters is the blood ravens who became well known when dawn of war came out. In the codex it tells you several chapters traits. It gives blood ravens:
-See, but dnt be seen
-Trust your battle brother
These have been explained before on this post but i love the 2 of them to gether. What more could you want.
The ability to infiltrate a devastator squad mean that you get to see were the main targets forthem will be, before you deploy. Then you get to place them in the best bit of terain on the bored and even get to shoot at them in the first turn or so.
Then say if you have a heavy wepon in a 5 man tatical squad you can infiltrate these and mabe take out a tank or something with a little luck and even if the get into combat the are sick because the get 2 atacks each three for a vetran sargent so each turn in combat you get 11 atacks for 5 guys!!! And 21 for ten guys. The fact that you don't get anythin for charging doesn't matter because if you are facing another troup of marines, the chances are that it will go into the second turn and when it does you have the advantage.
What more could you want i ask. I would say that they are a nicely rounded army cause the ability to get into good firing points straight away and then stand up in combat as well makes them a good beginner army.
Dnt judge my judgments plz
Its not my fault, blame some other guy
Just to remind everyone, even though I'm not a mod, <E!_Mance> made this forum for the purpose of posting a quick guide to Space Marine Chapters for all the noobs that want to find the one thats right for them. I would like to see it stay that way and not turn this into a debate over traits. If you want to do that please start another forum. The new Space Marine guys will find it even harder navigating this forum with debates in between the real info. So like Firedrake said, keep on target please. Thank you kindly everyone.
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I just want to say thanks to E Mance and all the others for this thread. Im a no0b to SM/40k and wish this guide was here a month ago when i started playing. This will be extreamly helpful to anyone who chooses to look.