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    Experienced BLood Angels players. A few questions please-

    SO currently I am building up a Space Wolves and BLood Angels Armies. Mostly due to the fact that, economically it wil be better for me to but a few of the Battleforce Boxes now that they are dropped to $90.00. And becasue after building up my own DIY Chaoter of 300+ Marines. (Darn it just can't stay away from new conversions and painting), I need a new direction for my Space Marine Addiction to go. and i love both Space WOlves and Blood Angels. My Space Wolf list is pretty much done, and you can see it ont he Army List forum, but as for BLood Angels.

    Question 1:

    Does the Grail still work well in 4th Edition? If so, I am using a Chaplain and Sanguinary High Priest as my HQ's. High Priest has an Hour Guard of 5 with Power Weapons and Jump Packs. Will he or the Jump Pack Death company Chaplain be better off with the Grail?

    Question 2:
    2 Furioso Dreadnoughts. Over Kill, or good to go?

    Question 3:
    Three Tac Squads, with Melta Guns. 3 Rhinos W/ Extra armor. Does the BA Codex rule on BA Rhino's still supercede the Rule about disembarkation? And if not..I should porbably use the points elsewhere correct?

    Question 4:
    3 Squads of Assault marines with Vet Sergeants. THis is how Blood angles work right? and how much um...Flak will I catch for this?

    Question 5:
    Heavy support, I figure a Predator Annhilator, since I migth end up having to move. Devs are notgreat in BA since I am wanting to assault right?

    K that's about it, thanks all! I hope to get some good feedback/advice.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Darguth's Avatar
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    I can help out with some of the simpler questions atleast, but I'll save the other ones for the really experienced players .

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanusImperialis
    Question 3:
    Three Tac Squads, with Melta Guns. 3 Rhinos W/ Extra armor. Does the BA Codex rule on BA Rhino's still supercede the Rule about disembarkation? And if not..I should porbably use the points elsewhere correct?
    BA Rhinos are usually a waste. The points cost for the 'upgrade' of Over-Charged engines is hardly worth it. No, correction, not worth it at all. If you can avoid it, don't use Rhinos at all in a BA list. At least don't use them more than is absolutely necessary to do whatever it is you think you need them for.

    For mobile melta guns you would probably be better served putting them into a Veteran Assault Squad or possibly even an Honor Guard.

    Question 4:
    3 Squads of Assault marines with Vet Sergeants. THis is how Blood angles work right? and how much um...Flak will I catch for this?
    There are other FA choices worth using, although Assault Marines can be very strong. I wouldn't say no to three Assault Squads but I would also make sure that I didn't plan on using Land Speeders (Tornadoes rock!) or bikes (not a huge concern but be sure anyway). Remember that you can have a Veteran Assault Squad too, so not all of your jumpy marines have to come from FA choices. You can also put jump packs on your Honor Guard or Death Company to get from place to place.

    One prime example where this many jumpy marines probably isn't a great idea would be against a Nid that likes his gribbly genestealers. Your standard unit of genestealers will rip through even a hearty unit of Blood Angel assault marines. In this case a Land Speeder Tornado would probably do a lot more damage for its points cost.

    Question 5:
    Heavy support, I figure a Predator Annhilator, since I migth end up having to move. Devs are notgreat in BA since I am wanting to assault right?
    Don't overlook the Baal Class Predator. The only thing an Annihilator will really do better than the Baal is punch through the heaviest of armor values. If you think you are going to need that, by all means take the Annihilator as it is the perfect tool for the job. However, in nearly every other situation the Predator can do much more damage.

    I personally use a Baal Class in nearly all of my lists, it's just that good. My other Heavy choices usually include a Devastator Squad as well because you can tailor them to bring whatever kind of fire support you think you'll be needing. True, there is the chance you lose their firing, but they are usually worth the chance. The third slot is currently a Whirlwind but I'll be buying a Crusader some time in the future to give me a strong assault transport.

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    Senior Member The Daywalker's Avatar
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    That list looks good. Except I would take out the Rhinos and 1 assualt squad and throw in pods for the furioso dreads, and then add a LST squad with assualt cannons and heavy bolters.


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    Member Brother Luctus's Avatar
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    Question 1:

    Does the Grail still work well in 4th Edition? If so, I am using a Chaplain and Sanguinary High Priest as my HQ's. High Priest has an Hour Guard of 5 with Power Weapons and Jump Packs. Will he or the Jump Pack Death company Chaplain be better off with the Grail?
    A Chaplain w/DC can smash though any unit when assualting. I would use the Grail with
    my Chaplain any day. On the other hand...It depends on your uses for the SHP. If he
    is leading 7 assault terminators out of a Crusaider, then yea go with the SHP.

    Question 2:
    2 Furioso Dreadnoughts. Over Kill, or good to go?
    Yea, Over kill. If you want a fluff look to your army go a head. Furioso's are
    good but don't always last long enough to do real damage.

    Question 3:
    Three Tac Squads, with Melta Guns. 3 Rhinos W/ Extra armor. Does the BA Codex rule on BA Rhino's still supercede the Rule about disembarkation? And if not..I should porbably use the points elsewhere correct?
    As far as points, no they aren't worth it. Sorry. But they still get your troops across the
    board in a hurry. And after deployment they make great mobile terrain. Also they can't
    assualt after deploying, and can't deploy if the rhino moves more than 12".

    Question 4:
    3 Squads of Assault marines with Vet Sergeants. THis is how Blood angles work right? and how much um...Flak will I catch for this?
    I personally own 3 Assualt squads. I made one of them into a Veteran Assualt squad.
    So I can leave a FAST ATTACK slot open to my Land Speeder Tornado. I also have 15
    DC w/jump packs. Can you tell I love assualt squads.

    Question 5:
    Heavy support, I figure a Predator Annhilator, since I migth end up having to move. Devs are notgreat in BA since I am wanting to assault right?
    Dev squads have their use. Remember Blood Angels my be assualty but are still a
    codex chapter. But I would go with a Baal Pred. for mobility and then an Annhilator second.

    Have you thought about a Dreadnought with a TL Las cannon?

    Hope this helps.

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    Senior Member blood_angelmarine's Avatar
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    Question 1:

    Does the Grail still work well in 4th Edition? If so, I am using a Chaplain and Sanguinary High Priest as my HQ's. High Priest has an Hour Guard of 5 with Power Weapons and Jump Packs. Will he or the Jump Pack Death company Chaplain be better off with the Grail?
    Heck yes!! The Grail is still the best special wargear item Blood Angels can take. It gives alot more versatility to your death company and gives them a better chance of consolidation into CC which is where you want to keep them. But I think its only good when used with the DC so yes for Chaplain with DC, no for anything else.

    Question 2:

    2 Furioso Dreadnoughts. Over Kill, or good to go?
    Overkill. Use the other empty slot for a normal Dread with either the Hellfire config (missle launcher/lascannon) or the normal config with AC and CCW.

    Question 3:

    Three Tac Squads, with Melta Guns. 3 Rhinos W/ Extra armor. Does the BA Codex rule on BA Rhino's still supercede the Rule about disembarkation? And if not..I should porbably use the points elsewhere correct?
    The fourth edition rules were very clear and you cannot disembark from a rhino that has moved more than 12" which really sucked becuase overcharged engines were a wicked combo. So the rhinos aren't worth it. Either Drop pod or let them walk with Black Rage tests.

    Question 4:
    3 Squads of Assault marines with Vet Sergeants. THis is how Blood angles work right? and how much um...Flak will I catch for this?
    Don't worry, no flak from me . I would use two 7 man sqauds, one being a veteran squad with 2 Meltaguns becuase they are just killer when it comes to taking down vehicles. Don't forget to give them melta-bombs as well. Use the last Fast Attack slot for a landspeeder Tornado or 2.

    Question 5:
    Heavy support, I figure a Predator Annhilator, since I migth end up having to move. Devs are notgreat in BA since I am wanting to assault right?
    Devs aren;t great becuase of the Black Rage special rule. They may end up moving and not ebing able to make any shots. Pred Anihilator is good, but i think the Baal can be better. However, if you have the points, use both.:w00t:

    Hope this helps. Good luck my man.

    Krevzi:w00t:

    W-1 L-0 D-0

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    Wow, lots of info and feedback. Thanks!


    Ok so I am thinking...

    No Rhinos means another 150+ Pts to work with. And since I can't Rhinor ush them I think i am going to drop a marine from each squad, or drop One squad entirely and max the other three.

    DEFINATLY think I will do the Drop pod thing, but I don't ahve a drop pod model and this is WYSIWYG isn't it? Or Is the general WH40K community kinda giving us this one and just deep striking it?

    Ok, I. think I will lose one of the Furioso's

    In dropping the RHinos, I think I'll use those points to add a Baal Predator since I need the firepower. Tell me is there a New model Baal out? OR only the old, small one?

    And the SHP would be leading the honour guard. Does anyone ever take 2 BA Chaplains? Or would this be "cheese", or "Powergaming"? This is more a curisoity question than anything. I like to get into my armies charrie and I can't imagine the BLood Angels taking the field without a commander of level headedness.

    Opinions on these switches?

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    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HumanusImperialis
    SO currently I am building up a Space Wolves and BLood Angels Armies. Mostly due to the fact that, economically it wil be better for me to but a few of the Battleforce Boxes now that they are dropped to $90.00. And becasue after building up my own DIY Chaoter of 300+ Marines. (Darn it just can't stay away from new conversions and painting), I need a new direction for my Space Marine Addiction to go. and i love both Space WOlves and Blood Angels. My Space Wolf list is pretty much done, and you can see it ont he Army List forum, but as for BLood Angels.

    Question 1:

    Does the Grail still work well in 4th Edition? If so, I am using a Chaplain and Sanguinary High Priest as my HQ's. High Priest has an Hour Guard of 5 with Power Weapons and Jump Packs. Will he or the Jump Pack Death company Chaplain be better off with the Grail?
    yes grail still works
    Question 2:
    2 Furioso Dreadnoughts. Over Kill, or good to go?
    Overkill is the wrong word, they lumber up the field and if they ever reach something they tend to tear it to shreads, if your opponent is an assault army he may well be able to deal with it in cloise combat, otherwise, because of the threat it presents, it tends to get shot way before it gets close. Some people advocate drop podding them, however I can not say I am keen, cos the turn ou arrive you aint going any where so again be prepared to get shot up.
    BUT IMHO they do have a place, other than in city fight and densly terrained boards where they can get to assaults without being shot, and that is if you play a mechanised force, with a lot of vehicles on the board, the furioso will draw fire away from other vehicles, or else will reach hs lines untouched
    Question 3:
    Three Tac Squads, with Melta Guns. 3 Rhinos W/ Extra armor. Does the BA Codex rule on BA Rhino's still supercede the Rule about disembarkation? And if not..I should porbably use the points elsewhere correct?
    Read the FAQ on the GW site
    It depends what sort of BA army you want to play, I would go all or nothing with vehicles, my flesh tearers are entirely mechanised, everything has a transport and acutally the use of TLLC razors means you get some good tank killing capability that is not nerfed when you roll a 6
    Question 4:
    3 Squads of Assault marines with Vet Sergeants. THis is how Blood angles work right? and how much um...Flak will I catch for this?
    ok yes, that is the bog standard way to go, may not be three but load out as many assault squads as you can, take 2 plasma pistols and give the vet sgt a power fist, however, that is not the only way to play, as I said above, I use mechanised, others use drop pod tac squads, scouts can also be used, with infiltration, to make a decent supporting assault unit for DC or (god forbid) a tooled up honour guard. You will catch some flack, the approach is pretty obvious and well established, therefore doesnt requre mch imagination, but how much flack depends on who you are playing. Also as others have said, other FA choices are available
    Question 5:
    Heavy support, I figure a Predator Annhilator, since I migth end up having to move. Devs are notgreat in BA since I am wanting to assault right?
    Noooo - The Baal - the envy of every other marine chapter, side sponsons with HBs, and kill kill kill, heck take 2
    Devs tend to be frowned apon by some BA players because of their somewhat uncanny ability to go nuts just when you need them, run 1 inch forwards and render themselves incapable of shooting, and in any case why would you want anything but Baals????
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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    Well as to the Baal Predators, I find witht heir short range when iw ant tank Killing ability out of my HEavy Support they really don't take the cake. NOW I have a new Question-
    (And side note: Can someone direct me to the Blood Angel FAQ on GW site?)

    Love the Honour guard, the model options, the no armor saves, love 'em. But it seems if I'm not playing CSM/SM/WH/DH- Wll basically 3+ save armies, or some Eldar, that It might be a good idea for me to just attach them the another squad and use something else to soak up the points.

    Also, Rate the Honour guard for me please. Are they one of the units that LOOKS super cool, or are they really cool as well and can back their stat and equipment options up? Also, exsanguinator, I'm thinking If I tool up and take one for my SHP then this is probably a very good idea?

    Upon reading this feedback I wonder if-

    Honor guard come out to almost the same points with better options?

    I'm thinking I want to maximize my Assault Marines. If I take 3 assault Sqauds, 2 Vetern Squads w/ Melta guns, can that handle Tanks? With of course Vet Srg. Powerfist... but this will wat up mucho points if Maxed out. Can I skimp to say 5-6 man squads of Veteran assault Marines?

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    Ok so here are the changes I've Made-

    New Blood Angles 2000 Pt List: (1996 Pts)

    HQ:
    HQ PTS TOTAL: 357

    Death Company Chaplain Strayl: 236 Pts
    DC Chappy:
    Jump Pack:
    Deathmask:
    Grail:
    Bolt Pistol:

    Sanguinary High Priest Azreal: 121 Pts
    SHP:
    Power Wep:
    Death Mask:
    Bolt Pistol:
    Jump Pack:


    FAST ATTACK:
    FAST ATTACK TOTAL= 623 Pts

    Assault Squad Anwar------211 Pts Total.
    8 Assault Marines-
    1 Plasma Pistol-
    Vet Srg-
    Powerfist-

    Assault Squad Dreo ------211 Pts Total.
    8 Assault Marines-
    1 Plasma Pistol-
    Vet Srg-
    Powerfist-

    Assault Squad Praxus -------201 pts Total.
    8 Assault Marines-
    Vet. Srg.
    Powerweapon-

    TROOPS: 215 Pts Total

    Tactical Squad Eyretu: 75 pts.
    5 Tactical marines=

    Tactical Squad Valens: 75 Pts
    5 Tactical marines:

    Scout Squad Kortis: 65 Pts
    5 Scouts:

    ELITE:
    TOTAL ELITE PTS: 555

    Furioso Maxillia: Total Pts =128 Pts
    Smoke Launchers-
    Drop Pod:

    Vetern Assault Squad Probatus: 208 Pts. Total
    6 Veteran Marines:
    1 Melta Guns:
    Vet. Srg. :
    Powerfist:

    Veteran Squad Kantaro: 219 Pts Total
    8 Veteran Marines:
    Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons
    Lightning Claws:
    Power Weapon:
    Vet Srg:
    Powerfist:
    Infiltrate Veteran Skill

    HEAVY SUPPORT: 245 Pts

    Baal Predator:
    Baal Pred:
    Heavy Bolter Sponsons:

    Predator Destructor:
    Pred. Dest:
    Lascannon Sponsons:


    Thoughts for these cahnges takign into account what you guys have said are as follows:

    HQ: Since they will be in CC most the time, I went light on wargear,as that I only like spending points on HQ's in a Vanilla list with cool Librarian command squad. I figure I can add the SHP to one of the Assault squads int he middle and keep it so all assault units have a Marine within 6 inches so they all get to re-roll misses. I decided against the honour guard. Does this look better?

    ELITES:

    Decided to add the Veteren assault squad. They are going ot be more of a Crisis Control, or Problem Solving unit. Hunt tanks or Tyranid Monstrous creatures, high T models. Also can use them to jump in and swing a close assault in my favor. Try to take full advantage of my mobility, plus it squeezes some more Assault Marines.

    Dreadnought: I took the drop pod, and decided on just one Dreadnought. Figure when he drops, can pop smoke and let loose with Melta gun and stormbolter.

    Veteran Squad: I figured I can't pass up Infiltrate AND Furious assault. THis will give them other stuff to shoot at rather thant he assault marines. Plus gives me over 40+ Marines that wil be int he lines by turn 3. And gives me an assault at turn 2.

    TROOPS:

    My Tac squads weren't a big threat, and since droppign the RHino I've shrunkt hemt og ive me anotehr infitrating squad to furious charge on the opposite side of the Vetern squad.

    FAST ATTACK:

    What can I say, lots of Jump packs. The powerwep marine squad handle's purely infantry, and I wanted the points for streamlining it.

    HEAVY SUPPORT:

    BAAL: BA army after all,a nd it'll help make up for lack of firepower.

    Destructor: I figure what can an Annihilator do, that a Destructor can't do for 20 Pts cheap with so many other thing sin my squads.


    TACTICS:

    Vets and Scouts Infiltrate as Spearhead or on opposite flanks to draw fire away.

    ALL assult marine jump forward with Deathcompany in lead for possible screen due to "Feel No Pain". SHP unit in center for his Chosen effect.

    Tac Marines march forward flanking the Baal predator, while the Destructor takes it's shots and the Anti tank.

    Turn 2-

    Possible Mass assult, if not then All set up for Assault in Turn Three. Infiltrators stay in or berak hard cover, general Advacne.

    Turn 3:

    Mass Assult with all 30 Assault Marines, SHP, and Chappy + DC advancing on lines and attacking. Vet Assault can pop a tank if needed. Infiltrators join the fray. Odds are with SHP and DC used correctly I wil break and annihilate at least 2-3 units and consolidate of Sweeping Advance into new units Ensuring my Furious charge rolls. Drop pod the Dread for clean up wince many fireing lines will be obscured.


    OVerall Tactics:

    I went to add as many threatening unuits as I could to force enemy to divide shootign as thinly as possible. Casulities will happen but, they always will..


    So what should I change now, or tweak if anything? And is this set-up better than the last?

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