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I'm undecided about how to use Stormtroopers effectively. I'm caught between feeling they are bad space marines and over priced guardsmen.
How do you use them? I'm thinking that the best use they can have is to throw them in a transport and use them as tank busters.
What size squad do you use? 5 IST? 10? Do you upgrade one to a Vet? If so, what equipment do you give him? Do you attach an Inquisitor? What, if any, kind of transport do you use?
How effective are they as units? Do they actually work as tank busters, or do the opponents drive their tanks out of melta range and blow up the transport and let enemy troops rip them to pieces? If they actually get within range of enemy armor, do they do a good job of destorying it with just 2 meltas? Can you give the Vet a Combi-melta? What about an attached Inquisitor? (Can you have 4 meltas in 1 squad? Is it overkill?)
I'm just looking for a variety of opinions here.
I personally like to deep strike mine with two Melta guns for tank busting behind enemy lines. Use 2 Plasmas if it is Tau or Eldar. ( 2 Plasmas are great for Broadsides! ) Personally I like full squads of 10 with a Vet Sgt and Power Weapon. This squad can last a couple or rounds and destroy more than you think. The extra men just act a meat, and the carapace is invaluable. ( If you want a suicide squad, take Vets as they are cheaper ).
Infiltrating a squad with two Plasm guns is also effective.
Driving them around in a Chimera is good, but not for Tank busting IMO. They are better for filling gaps in lines and objective grabbing.
One thing: NEVER use Stormies like Marines, they are not. They only have a 4+ save, and other than that fall like the guardmen they are.
EDIT: I was a moron this morning. I though I was in the IG forum, and not Deamonhunters!:wacko: If course IST's can't DS or Infiltrate, and for Deamonhunters, a squad in a Rhino with two Meltas is one of our better tank busting options. Never bother with a 15pt power weapon on a Vet Sgt for ISTs. The only option I would ever give them is a Teleport Homer.
Last edited by Diggums Hammer; August 15th, 2006 at 16:34.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
I can only remember one time my IST did anything even close to being worth their points, theydrove up 11 inches jumped out and melta'd a LR in the first turn. other than that they've only been able to kill a couple of troops here and there, and I think once they destroyed a Dreadnought's weapon. I really want to like them but I have found TLLC dreadnoughts to be more effective, and worth the points.
I'm pretty sure you can not deep strike or infiltrate ISTs, only IGSTs have those options. too bad though, it would be pretty sweet to be able to deep strike your entire army.
I really like storm troopers for the daemonhunter army. I normally use two squads. One for shooting/grabing an objective; I give them two plamsa guns and a chimera and most of the time they burn themselves to death with plamsa, but it is still a good time. The second one is my back up tank killer. With only two primary Tank Hunters in my list I like to have something to back them up; a small squad of Stormies can do this easily (while holding a teleport homer) and really costs about the same as most tanks so if they kill something they typically earn their points back; if they don't your opponent was probably shooting at the wrong thing because that is another round for your GKs to get to the fight.
I have a mechanized force, with plenty of Deepstriking GK, so I use mine as mobile doormats. I take a squad of 8-10, give them 2x special weapons (either 2x melta or 2x plasma, usually), a Vet with a Teleport Homer, and a transport (see below for which one and why). They can get close to the enemy quickly, and because of the special weapons, are useful outside of bringing in GK.
I'd say never to mix special weapons within a squad. 40K is a game about specialization, and flexible multi-purpose squads will usually just end up being mediocre in a few areas. Due to the standard DH army's lack of heavy firepower, I suggest that you take a squad with 2x plasma guns and another with 2x meltaguns. The Plasma'll give you some moderate firepower against heavy infantry (Space Marines, CSM, Necrons), while the meltas will be handy against vehicles, of course. If you bring in a third squad, you can give them either choice above, or perhaps Grenade Launchers - they're quite useful against low-armored horde armies like Nids, Tau, and IG, but less so if you're fielding a lot of GK alongside them (since stormbolters are, well, awesome).
As for Vets, don't ever buy them purely to give them a weapon upgrade - it's a waste of points! You're paying double for the Vet, who has nearly the same statline as a regular IST, just so that you can get armoury access. With a rocking melee weapon, he'll still perform below the level of a GK (not to mention die faster) for more points. With a rocking ranged weapon, well, there really aren't any to give them ^^ Plasma pistols/combi-plasma are a bad bet if you're using the Vet for a Teleport Homer (you don't want him overheating and dying), and combi-meltas are overpriced for what they do.
What a Vet CAN do, as I mentioned before, is bring down GK nicely. Teleport Homers are great, especially since they're cheap and you can toss them on a lot of models in your army at once. With 2+ TP Homers on the table, especially if they're in a transport like all IST should be, you have a lot of options for bringing down GK.
For a transport, you can go with whichever you prefer. A lot of people feel that a Rhino is best with meltaguns because the higher side armor might keep the transport alive in close proximity with the enemy (which meltaguns require). But honestly, the Chimera has higher front armor, so the argument can work there too. Myself, I prefer the Chimera because it comes with two decent Heavy weapons - something all DH armies lack anyways. But due to cost concerns, my IST are all fielded in Rhinos (I bought Chimeras, but they're painted up for my inducted Armored Fists). Field whichever you think will compliment your list & style better.You *can* give a Vet a combi-melta, and you also can attach an Inquisitor. But combi-meltas are *never* worth their points. You're better off putting meltabombs on the Vet as a backup if the meltaguns in the squad fail. It's a waste to put Inquisitors in there for armor busting!Originally Posted by SaterusNope, only IGST can Deepstrike. We're stuck with either footslogging or transports.Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer
Last edited by mEGALOMANIAC; August 15th, 2006 at 16:16.
Well i have an intreresting opinion. I personally have mixed feelings toward them. For a few reasons.
1. for three points i can have a space marine scout much better especially cause of the options
2. Or for a few more points i can have a sister of battle, Duhh powerarmour
However, the other day i was in a four way free for all at 500 points. Yes i took an inquisitor lord (framiliar, warrior, and sage) , a vindicare assasing, and as many storm troopers i could have. I used the assassin to pop special weapons guys and any guardsmen with equiptment and my storm troopers did exceptionally well dealing with the rest of the guardsmen. However that kinda left my inquisitor high and dry fighting a carnifex, that it killed. and the rest of the nid and ork armies.
So i say they performed admirably, and are worth taking. Just dont expect out of them what u expect from space marines. (thats why i had them fight the guardsmen not the nids and orks)
As for how to use them. Obviously tool them up for their job. So use the special weapons that u will need. And even though they are cool the veteran sergent does not get a power weapon. Unlike IG they arent cheap options
hope my rambleing helps
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Neither of which are core Troops choices in a DH army. So when you need to fill in those two mandatory slots...Originally Posted by Deek
So what everyone is saying is that:
1) IST are cool, but not as cool as SM.
2) Fill up your Troops slots so that you can put your GK in the Fast Attack slot.
3) The best special weapons troops we have outside of IG.
4) Should always be mounted in a vehicle (not a single person ever mentioned using them without a transport).
5) Useful for something to slap a teleport homer to.
6) Specialize for tank-busting or heavy-infanty, but don't try to do both.
7) Often end up as suicide troops to draw fire from better units.
Am I missing anything?
One thing not many people touched on was squad size. Do you guys use 10 or 5 or somewhere in between? A squad of 5 IST with 2 meltas mounted in a transport has the same chance to pop a tank as a squad of 10, but just less guys that they can lose. What do you guys use?
Sorta related, but sort of not: Does GW sell IST models, or do you just buy the IG ST and paint them to match your army? I didnt see any in the DH section of the GW Online Store...
Last edited by Saterus; August 16th, 2006 at 05:00.
There are no specific IST models that I know of..
Respect the IST, my last game 3 squads of 10 men surviving the death of 2 of my 3 chimeras before my first turn lasted 3 rounds against the whole 1500pt WH force, herding his WH into place for the GK's and Terms to come down and bring the pain.