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Do you guys think an army of all SoB standing at 24" apart from their enemies and open up bolter fire (w/ 2 meltas in a squad in case of a charge from mounted land raider/assault squad) would be effective? I am talking about against marines primarily, as because of their C&C capability > SoB and the disadvantage will mostly cost you more points than you can make it back from C&C. :x
Take a whole army of 3 squads of SoB mounted in Rhino that charges and disembark at the 18"-24" distance (or just deploy them there to save the extra 150 points for another squad). Have 2 (or a squad of hvy bolter ][ retinues) squads of Retributor open up with 8 heavy bolters and 2 Exorcists doing the anti-tank... if it's not enough, have the canoness jump in with eviscerator to take out any advancing vehicles like dreadnaughts? (in a 1500pt game)
I find that rushing my sister squads into a rapid fire range normally results in a whole squad wipe in the next turn due to a charge. Mainly because, there just isnt much of them left when they finally reached that 12" distance :wacko: .
Hold ground at 18"-24" distance against SM/CSM -- Any thoughts?
Last edited by nekochen; August 16th, 2006 at 18:48.
Merely holding ground is ineffective I think. Sure it can work with imperial gaurd but thats because they have the punch. Witch hunters on the other hand doesn't have that kind of heavy weaponary. With only 24" effective range an opposing Space Marine army can easily out range you with superior heavy weaponary, such as the plasmacannon. While the Exorcist and Heavy Bolter Retributors offer you a chance to return fire they can hardly win the game themselves.
[=P.S=] Gaining mission objectives will also prove relatively difficult if you intend to stay still. While in friendly anhilation matches they arn't as important but it does offer a new perspective to a battle when you need to claim these things.
A purely defensive army such as this will mean you will need good covage of the feild, however battlefields are often not open and do not give you the luxury of 24" of safety shooting. You will probably find that your line of sight is often blocked by some peice of terrain. In addition to this kind of force the army in general will be slow and will find hard to out monuver an army which has Jump Packs or mobile units. Speaking of these units, the greatest advantage they have over such an army is their ability to jump from terrain peice to terrain peice avoiding your LoS while still advancing rapidly. Your own sisters may find themselves being caught quite unready.
Your thoughts:This is because you are probably because your sisters are slow when foot slogging accross the board. This would give your opponent ample oppitunities to bring their weapons to bare against such a slow unit with little fear. Use of terrain may also not be efficently used, though I havn't seen you play I can't comment much on this. But if you going around terrain I suggest you sometimes consider moving through it, while the opponent may still be able to see you, having a cover save is very handy, also any squad wishing to assault you will suffer from striking last.Originally Posted by nekochenThese are good but in regard to the previous quote, if you arn't killing enough it's because the package isn't well equipped. But usually a squad of sisters and 2 flamers offer enough anti-infantry shooting when coming from a rhino, note you can get more flamer weapons if needs be. Meltaguns in these squads are less useful, while true you are prepared for the anti-tank aspect, you are wasting a lot of bolter shots to knock down a tank, instead let more specialised squads deal with vechicals (Exorcists, dominions or Seraphim etc) and not let those bolters to waste.Originally Posted by nekochen
Your thinking here is pretty standard of a Witch Hunter player and I suppose correct. I personally dislike Retributors, while weapon wise one can argue they offer a large payload of shots I will argue they are immobile. They would need a good coverage of the feild from the start to make those weapons useful but however, what do you suppose would happen if a Predator equipped with anti-infantry weapons or a Whirlwind would do to such a squad? So my point is they are also fragile to long range bouts, not to mention they would suffer from being combated easily by faster moving units.
Exorcists on the other hand can move, shoot and knock out both tanks and heavy infantry, as well as being rather sturdy. Moving and shooting means that deployment in front of the enemy is not important so you can tuck this vehical away where no one can see it, so you basically always get the first shots off.
All very true Heiromyo, but Rets are almost always taken to the field I think...
Maybe a smaller squad with 3HBs and no Imagifier (ever) is a more realistic option?
For sure it is more cost-effective than =][= with HB servitors...
The only game where I would NOT take Rets with HB would be CoD battle.
I would consider 2 MM Rets squad to block off a location from any advancing tanks...
All the other comments valid as usual :yes:
I mainly play Tau (for almost 2 years now).. the range shooting isnt unfamiliar to me but WH is a totally different aspect compare to Tau. I am not accustomed to push all my units forward...
I tried playing a few games against my friends -- primarily SM/CSM.. and one IG.. but I have yet win one game against them. They are fully awared of the WH weakness in range, so they are packed with anti-tank weaponry to take down my Rhino from afar .. even before they could be of any use. Any sister squad without a Rhino is forced to foot-slog the rest of the distance (24" if I dont get to go first). While Exorcists does seem to be a good anti-infantry choice, but the random-ness of its salvo shots means a big gamble against AR13+ vehicles like Predators... or worse.. a Leme Russ. It's not rare for me to roll a big fat 2 or 3 to see how many shots are fired.. then when I need a 5 or 6 to penetrate, I would roll 2 3 4.
I need alot of suggestions on how-to WH 101...
I've read yours, and alot other's tactica.. but they dont seem to be working in this case when your enemy is packed with weapon that's specifically against WHs.
Yeh the Exorcist is good against most things a space marine can throw at you, but as for your rhinos he shouldn't really be able to shoot at them even if he does get first turn. Because of the nice mobility Rhinos produce you should keep them hidden behind cover from deployment and out of LoS to his weapons. If you find yourself with too many Rhinos then it's time to cut down and buy some other units. Often this is done by Seraphim who can match the speed of transports and let of a nice array of shooting. Just as a reminder when taking Rhinos you should give them Smoke Launchers and Extra Armour to increase survival.
A standard game does mean that players deploy 18-24" apart, if he's asking to deploy further than that then you do have the right to deny him. (though deploying at the back of his deployment zone is still allowed)
Typically I would say speed wins most games, an army that can out monuver the opposing force generally has an upper hand. Saying thus I think that Witch Hunters do well to use this in mass because of the range issues. I would also stick to heavy weapons that can move and shoot, but in general review how your units lost or won certain fights during battles and try and reconise whats going wrong.
I wouldnt try to hold ground against Smurfs, simply because of our lack of long ranged firepower. the only way i have found to consistently beat SM is mechanized rush and dump tactics, supported by assassin's, seraphim, and the usual exorcists.
And you really shouldnt need a rhino to get to 18-24" away, because a standard table has the players forces deploying 24" apart. (he should only be farther than that away if he's at the back of his deployment zone.
2000pts Orks 4-2-1
Ya, my idea was to use the 100 points two Rhino as a mobile 4+ cover terrain (being destroyed) when deploying at 24" away directly infront of my sisters. If my opponent does not shoot at my Rhino and choose to shoot at my sister squad instead, then I could load them up and run forward the next turn -- and pop smoke screen. Even if it's immoblised on the next turn, my sister could still disembark 2" and move another 6" forward. If it IS destroyed, all the better.. a 4+ cover save for my sister squad that will just match bolter shots into the smurf. With luck, DG might do some damage...Originally Posted by gen.nehring
Dunno.. just my two cents. :ninja:
Destroyed Vechicals are impassable terrain I thought that are also height three. :/
Lot's of uncertainies with that plan I think, one being your sisters being pinned when the vechical is destroyed, being fearless doesn't help in this type of pinning unforunately since it's entanglement or something of the like (can't remember proper term).
Destroyed Vehicle is only impassble for other vehicle of the same or lower frontal AR, otherwise it's difficult terrain and will block line of sight to infantry (p.68 under Wreck).
For that entangle purpose.. I didnt mean to put them inside of the Rhino at start.. I said to surround the vehicle at deployment, giving a choice of target to the opponent. The table that I play does not have *ANY* terrain that blocks line of sight in the center. The only way I could hide my troops at deployment is to deploy them close to my table edge, and that would be pointless for taking a Rhino. Moving a Rhino through terrain 12" up will also be a gamble.. any 1's rolled when taking dangerous means the same as being destroyed while deploying them at 24" away in the open field. Even if the 2D6 of dangerous test is passed.. the extra 12" that I move from Turn one will only get me to approximate of 22" away from my opponent.. which is still no different than deploying them at 24" in the open field. :x